Double overtake on single carriageway - legal?

[mjb1]

I had been following some bloke who was repeatedly performing some of the daftest driving I've ever encountered. He was trying to 'make progress' on a single carriageway road, but his overtaking technique was to blindly pull out and follow the car in front of him that was performing a reasonable overtake. Several times the following car ended up 3 abreast with oncoming traffic or swerving out of the way. Plenty of what I'd call dangerous driving.

I am following cautiously when we get to a one off section with 2 lanes (1 crawler lane) in the opposite direction:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=camelford&hl=e...

I can see that the opposite direction is clear of traffic in both lanes at least all the way to right hand bend at the bottom of the hill. I tentatively close on the said driver in front, indicate and pull out into the middle of the 3 lanes to overtake. Get about halfway past said idiot (my bonnet is coming up alongside his drivers window), lo and behold - a flash of the right hand indicator along with a simultaneous swerve as he pulls out himself to overtake. I have no choice but swerve right myself into the far right lane (i.e. the oncoming traffic's crawler lane). The oncoming road is still clear, and I therefore decide that I'm better off to continue what is now a double overtake than slow down and try and find somewhere to slot back into. What he did hadn't surprised me that much given his previous manoeuvres, and I don't think I'd have even tried to overtake him if both oncoming lanes hadn't been empty.

Question is, is it legal to be overtaking like this (aside from the fact that I ended up there taking evasive action)?

[hman]

Noticed car driving erratically attempted overtake erratic driver is erratic, outcome is obvious . Illegal or not you sure didn't use the info available

[hman]

Noticed car driving erratically attempted overtake erratic driver is erratic, outcome is obvious . Illegal or not you sure didn't use the info available

[Robb F]

You saw someone driving like a prick and decided to over take them?

Sounds like you got yourself into that mess tbh. Not that it makes it ok for him to do of course.

[henrycrun]

You've identified the looney - best to take another route or keep your distance

[DocSteve]

hman said:

Noticed car driving erratically attempted overtake erratic driver is erratic, outcome is obvious . Illegal or not you sure didn't use the info available

I think the OP said he wouldn't have performed the manoeuvre if the first lane of opposite carriageway was not clear - presumably in anticipation of the situation that then occurred.

In answer to the OP's question, which is interesting, I don't think there is anything illegal about it as a solid white line has not been crossed. In the situation described I might have considered using the horn after indicating and before pulling out, and if the guy was appearing so unpredictable I think it would have been reasonable to move over to the first lane of the opposite carriageway and then use it for the entirety of the overtake.

[stevensdrs]

henrycrun said:

You've identified the looney - best to take another route or keep your distance

Spot on.

[14-7]

mjb1 said:

what he did hadn't surprised me that much given his previous manoeuvres, and I don't think I'd have even tried to overtake him if both oncoming lanes hadn't been empty.

Question is, is it legal to be overtaking like this (aside from the fact that I ended up there taking evasive action)?

Yes it is legal but very stupid. Especially given that it didn't surprise you. In other words you seemingly predicted what was going to happen but you put yourself in that position anyway.

[Classic Grad 98]

Should've given the erratic driver a very wide berth. There's no way I'd go wing mirror to wing mirror with that bad a driver.

[davepoth]

Double white line crossing during an overtake is dangerous driving of itself. You should have slammed on the brakes really.

[DocSteve]

davepoth said:

Double white line crossing during an overtake is dangerous driving of itself. You should have slammed on the brakes really.

Where did the OP cross double-white lines?

[Benbay001]

DocSteve said:

davepoth said:

Double white line crossing during an overtake is dangerous driving of itself. You should have slammed on the brakes really.

Where did the OP cross double-white lines?

All but one "single carriage way with passing place" i know of has a solid white line.
So i can see why this conclusion was drawn.
And if this wasnt the case i cant see OP would be worried.

[mrmr96]

DocSteve said:

davepoth said:

Double white line crossing during an overtake is dangerous driving of itself. You should have slammed on the brakes really.

Where did the OP cross double-white lines?

He shouldn't have said "double white lines" he should have said "a solid white line".
If the OP crossed the solid white line then that was illegal.

[DocSteve]

Benbay001 said:

All but one "single carriage way with passing place" i know of has a solid white line.
So i can see why this conclusion was drawn.
And if this wasnt the case i cant see OP would be worried.

Have a look at the Google map image. As I understand from the OP's description (which seems quite clear) the OP was travelling in the direction with only one lane and therefore would not have had to illegally cross a solid white line at any point during the overtake.

[DocSteve]

mrmr96 said:

He shouldn't have said "double white lines" he should have said "a solid white line".
If the OP crossed the solid white line then that was illegal.

He would only have crossed it whilst returning to his lane, which is not illegal.

[mrmr96]

DocSteve said:

mrmr96 said:

He shouldn't have said "double white lines" he should have said "a solid white line".
If the OP crossed the solid white line then that was illegal.

He would only have crossed it whilst returning to his lane, which is not illegal.

Oh ok. I thought he was going the other way.
In which case yeah, you're right there's no illegal line crossing, however despite that I doubt that it would be deemed legal. Not because it would be illegal per se, but rather because it would constitute dangerous or careless driving.

Put it this way, if a police car were coming the other way and saw the three of you abreast, don't you think the guy doing the double will end up in court regardless of any excuses?

[Benbay001]

OP, clear up the confusion, pleasse!

[DocSteve]

mrmr96 said:

Oh ok. I thought he was going the other way.
In which case yeah, you're right there's no illegal line crossing, however despite that I doubt that it would be deemed legal. Not because it would be illegal per se, but rather because it would constitute dangerous or careless driving.

Put it this way, if a police car were coming the other way and saw the three of you abreast, don't you think the guy doing the double will end up in court regardless of any excuses?

It would have to fit the definition of dangerous or careless driving and I don't see how it would.

It is an interesting question though...

[mrmr96]

DocSteve said:

mrmr96 said:

Oh ok. I thought he was going the other way.
In which case yeah, you're right there's no illegal line crossing, however despite that I doubt that it would be deemed legal. Not because it would be illegal per se, but rather because it would constitute dangerous or careless driving.

Put it this way, if a police car were coming the other way and saw the three of you abreast, don't you think the guy doing the double will end up in court regardless of any excuses?

It would have to fit the definition of dangerous or careless driving and I don't see how it would.

It is an interesting question though...

I think if a policeman saw that then he would say that it did.

[mjb1]

Benbay001 said:

OP, clear up the confusion, pleasse!

Now I'm confused myself!

To clarify, I was driving down the hill, in the direction that has a single lane (sorry if my first post wasn't clear on that). At no point did I cross a double solid line. The dashed (on my side) and solid white lines mean that I can cross to overtake, but oncoming cars cannot. Surely the person who said it's illegal to cross the solid white line on the way back into lane is wrong? Otherwise overtaking on these road markings makes it impossible to return to the left?? I didn't cross any solid line that a normal overtake in this location would.

To the person who questioned the reaction of a possible oncoming police car, I could quite imagine getting a tug for being the double over taker. Guess the attitude test and whether or not they believed how I'd ended up there might be a saver. As I said, I wouldn't have attempted the overtake if there were ANY oncoming cars, nevermind plod.

With hindsight it's clear that it wasn't the best place to end up in, but I'm not sure it would prevent me from doing the same again, unless someone can clarify that it would definitely be illegal. I did genuinely feel safer in front of the other driver though - following him I felt like I could easily hve got caught up in the carnage if he ran out of luck.