Scameras and SACs - it's not about the money
Discussion
Daily Telegraph 1Dec2012 said:
More than half of motorists caught speeding opt for driver awareness courses, with the £100 fees paying for new cameras.
Income raised by safety camera partnerships from running the courses has more than doubled in a year, reaching nearly £21 million in 2011-12, from just under £9 million in the previous 12 months, as 54 per cent of offenders chose to take them.
The money is funding a new generation of digital cameras; numbers are expected to rise by 50 per cent in the next year.
At the same time, fewer speeding fines are being issued, with income for the Treasury down more than a quarter in a year.
On entering office, the Coalition removed Whitehall funding for speed cameras as part of ending the “war on the motorist”.
But the sharp rise in speed awareness courses “plugged the funding gap” for safety partnerships, said Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport.
So no change, there. [Pun intended.]Income raised by safety camera partnerships from running the courses has more than doubled in a year, reaching nearly £21 million in 2011-12, from just under £9 million in the previous 12 months, as 54 per cent of offenders chose to take them.
The money is funding a new generation of digital cameras; numbers are expected to rise by 50 per cent in the next year.
At the same time, fewer speeding fines are being issued, with income for the Treasury down more than a quarter in a year.
On entering office, the Coalition removed Whitehall funding for speed cameras as part of ending the “war on the motorist”.
But the sharp rise in speed awareness courses “plugged the funding gap” for safety partnerships, said Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport.
Streaky
I guess that explains why inscos are dipping their snouts in the "speed awareness" course trough now if they're seeing less profits from loading speeders' premiums.
I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9713854/S...
Lots of income being earned because people cannot spot luminous boxes or large vans by the side of the road.
Lots of income being earned because people cannot spot luminous boxes or large vans by the side of the road.
streaky said:
Daily Telegraph 1Dec2012 said:
More than half of motorists caught speeding opt for driver awareness courses, with the £100 fees paying for new cameras.
Income raised by safety camera partnerships from running the courses has more than doubled in a year, reaching nearly £21 million in 2011-12, from just under £9 million in the previous 12 months, as 54 per cent of offenders chose to take them.
The money is funding a new generation of digital cameras; numbers are expected to rise by 50 per cent in the next year.
At the same time, fewer speeding fines are being issued, with income for the Treasury down more than a quarter in a year.
On entering office, the Coalition removed Whitehall funding for speed cameras as part of ending the “war on the motorist”.
But the sharp rise in speed awareness courses “plugged the funding gap” for safety partnerships, said Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport.
So no change, there. [Pun intended.]Income raised by safety camera partnerships from running the courses has more than doubled in a year, reaching nearly £21 million in 2011-12, from just under £9 million in the previous 12 months, as 54 per cent of offenders chose to take them.
The money is funding a new generation of digital cameras; numbers are expected to rise by 50 per cent in the next year.
At the same time, fewer speeding fines are being issued, with income for the Treasury down more than a quarter in a year.
On entering office, the Coalition removed Whitehall funding for speed cameras as part of ending the “war on the motorist”.
But the sharp rise in speed awareness courses “plugged the funding gap” for safety partnerships, said Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport.
Streaky
What a shame the same sort of arrangement isn't made to fund the policing of other offences; if it was then you could have loads more police on the streets as is the popular desire.
supermono said:
I guess that explains why inscos are dipping their snouts in the "speed awareness" course trough now if they're seeing less profits from loading speeders' premiums.
I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
Avoid insurance companies who operate that policy.I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
“Our statistics show that a driver that has been caught speeding and has attended a Speed Awareness Course is, on average, roughly 10% more likely to have an accident in the next 12 months than a driver who has never been caught speeding. This is reflected in our rates,” a spokesman said."
As its first-time speeders that get 'invited' on the SACs, I assume the net effect is that they all driver faster afterwards....
Is someone telling porkies I wonder?
SS7
As its first-time speeders that get 'invited' on the SACs, I assume the net effect is that they all driver faster afterwards....
Is someone telling porkies I wonder?
SS7
10 Pence Short said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9713854/S...
Lots of income being earned because people cannot spot luminous boxes or large vans by the side of the road.
I agree: getting nicked by a fixed cam is not going to happen unless you are daft.Lots of income being earned because people cannot spot luminous boxes or large vans by the side of the road.
I disagree: dirty white vans (or any other colour) hidden within a bush with equipment pointing at drivers 750m away are never going to 'deter speeders' or catch only 'the unobservant'. They are simply part of a business plan.
The cambs vans are dirty white builders vans with a small (1 sq foot) scam logo on one panel. That is NOT visible enforcement it is cynical grazing.
If these vans were used with saving lives in mind they would always be visible from a sensible distance ie before the targetting range and only used where traffic posed a genuine potential threat ie in villages, near schools, in built-up areas etc.
They are however most often seen on straight stretches of DC and A road where the limit is 60 but the safe travelling speed is obvioulsy much (much) higher.
Ergo they are a scam.
richie slow said:
supermono said:
..........I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
Exactly. SM
Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
shoestring7 said:
“Our statistics show that a driver that has been caught speeding and has attended a Speed Awareness Course is, on average, roughly 10% more likely to have an accident in the next 12 months than a driver who has never been caught speeding. This is reflected in our rates,” a spokesman said."
As its first-time speeders that get 'invited' on the SACs, I assume the net effect is that they all driver faster afterwards....
Is someone telling porkies I wonder?
SS7
You are simply making the mistake that most of the camera supporters do, that speed causes more accidents than bad driving. Is it not far more likely that less observant drivers are both more likely to have an accident and miss seeing a camera van?As its first-time speeders that get 'invited' on the SACs, I assume the net effect is that they all driver faster afterwards....
Is someone telling porkies I wonder?
SS7
To be fair, in the latter case it is more difficult as by the time you can see them you have probably been pinged. The trick is to look and think much further ahead, not just the 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear', but way ahead, in fact around that corner or over that rise. Being able to stop will not prevent a van from getting you from ten times the distance you can stop in. This is of course a double edged sword, if you are good enough then this will probably reduce your chance of an accident, unfortunately if you are just looking for camera vans the chance of an accident probably increases.
P.S I know you were probably asking a leading question
Davidonly said:
richie slow said:
supermono said:
..........I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
Exactly. SM
Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
Davidonly said:
If there was any effect we would have seen it by now. There is no postive effect on safety from 'speed camera enforcement'.
Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
It always baffles me that so many of us spot this blatant obviousness. Yet the general public, either doesn't notice, or thinks the people who back this are gods beyond doubt or reason.Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/success-for-chad-...
This local paper recently drew me absolutely gobsmacked by their knee jerk reaction to call for cameras. I hated their daily mail antics and complained only to be greated by their back slapping self promotion when avg. speed cameras have been given the go ahead on a road that after its limit has been reduced to 50, has good proper road markings, still was host to a death. The thing that baffles me is that nowhere is there a report of reason of death. So piggybacking their bulls
t agenda on someones death. Lovely fking people.sugerbear said:
Davidonly said:
richie slow said:
supermono said:
..........I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
Exactly. SM
Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
Once traffic is lighter the cameras are not required anyway so I can't see what purpose they serve except to increase journey times and add to frustrations as the 70 GPS v 70 speedo v 70+10% populations continue to get in each others' way.
Drivers behave badly in all SPECS zones, there even more 'brain in neutral' behaviour than elsewhere on the network. I really HATE driving in SPECS zones.
Edited by Davidonly on Saturday 1st December 17:41
sugerbear said:
Davidonly said:
richie slow said:
supermono said:
..........I don't suppose anyone is still involved in the old fashioned job of looking at how many people are crashing, why, and whether or not measuring traffic speeds and fining them afterwards is having any effect?
SM
Exactly. SM
Most of the deployment has no effect at all. RTTM effects suggest planting a small tree would have the same impact where fixed cameras are concerned
Worse: Hidden vans cause panic braking when they become visible. Fatalities have resulted. SPECS deployment causes traffic to tailgate and drive in quite high speed parallel queues for mile after mile. This is dangerous. The A14 near me is blocked almost daily as result of SPECS deployment. I think the term 'safety camera' should be subject to some sort of legal challenge actually. 'Speed camera' is at least honest!
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