Landlord, HMO and Bristol City Council
Discussion
Hi,
I moved into 5 bedroom property on the 30th March with an AST (per bedroom). There was two separate bathrooms, kitchen, dining room and lounge with and a conservatory at the rear.
During the week 31st to 4th the landlord put a dividing wall between the lounge and dining room to turn it into a bedroom and a couple is now moving into that room, taking the total estimate (if no couples take the other rooms) 7 in total. The landlord didn't inform me or three other people that he would be doing this, I (and three others) took it based on the balance of communal areas and the number of people in the house.
I do want to move out but speaking to the landlord and his outlook of tenants I don’t foresee him letting me leave before the end of my contract and so far I've acted in a way to avoid dirtying any waters.
I did stumble upon requirements for room and amenities sizing which is the part I need help on. I don't believe we have large enough accommodation for the number of people about to occupy the property.
This document page 7/8: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docu...
Kitchen = 8.7m2
Lounge = 8.7m2
Total = 17.4m2
Also a large conservatory (which lacks heating so how can it be a livable area when you can’t use it all year round?) at the rear of the house.
Speaking to the council the person who did the measuring on the 25th of March was happy with the space provided so I presume they are only guidelines for landlords but then why use the word ‘Must’ in a document?
Is there any way to get the council to reevaluate the living conditions with a different officer or some kind of appeal process? I’ve been advised by the CAB/Consumer action group to begin writing recorded letters to the landlord informing him of my wishes and reasons and to be prepared for court proceedings. But if I do start this then I may face a few months of hell (he lives next door
)
Any landlords or tenants ever had a similar scenario? Or do you have any advice on an alternate approach or group to speak to?
I moved into 5 bedroom property on the 30th March with an AST (per bedroom). There was two separate bathrooms, kitchen, dining room and lounge with and a conservatory at the rear.
During the week 31st to 4th the landlord put a dividing wall between the lounge and dining room to turn it into a bedroom and a couple is now moving into that room, taking the total estimate (if no couples take the other rooms) 7 in total. The landlord didn't inform me or three other people that he would be doing this, I (and three others) took it based on the balance of communal areas and the number of people in the house.
I do want to move out but speaking to the landlord and his outlook of tenants I don’t foresee him letting me leave before the end of my contract and so far I've acted in a way to avoid dirtying any waters.
I did stumble upon requirements for room and amenities sizing which is the part I need help on. I don't believe we have large enough accommodation for the number of people about to occupy the property.
This document page 7/8: http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docu...
Bristol Council said:
Kitchen
5 people = 7m2
6 people = 9m2
7-10 people = 11m2
Total communal living space(1)
5 people = 18m2
6 people = 20m2
7-10 people = 27.5m2
(1)occupiers forming a group (includes kitchens, dining rooms and living rooms - the kitchen must be at
least the minimum size specified above)
I measured up and we have5 people = 7m2
6 people = 9m2
7-10 people = 11m2
Total communal living space(1)
5 people = 18m2
6 people = 20m2
7-10 people = 27.5m2
(1)occupiers forming a group (includes kitchens, dining rooms and living rooms - the kitchen must be at
least the minimum size specified above)
Kitchen = 8.7m2
Lounge = 8.7m2
Total = 17.4m2
Also a large conservatory (which lacks heating so how can it be a livable area when you can’t use it all year round?) at the rear of the house.
Speaking to the council the person who did the measuring on the 25th of March was happy with the space provided so I presume they are only guidelines for landlords but then why use the word ‘Must’ in a document?
Is there any way to get the council to reevaluate the living conditions with a different officer or some kind of appeal process? I’ve been advised by the CAB/Consumer action group to begin writing recorded letters to the landlord informing him of my wishes and reasons and to be prepared for court proceedings. But if I do start this then I may face a few months of hell (he lives next door
)Any landlords or tenants ever had a similar scenario? Or do you have any advice on an alternate approach or group to speak to?
You can either try to renegotiate the rent or inform the landlord you wish to move out as you believe he is in breach of the agreement which gives you the right to use the communal areas. It is probably in breach but this might depend on what is stated in the rental agreement.
An HMO with 7 people must be licensed with the Council.
An HMO with 7 people must be licensed with the Council.
The council did inform me that it is licensed for 7 people as of the 25th, so he informed the council of his plans but not the prospective tenants.
The contract doesn't mention anything specific to rooms only to keep the communal areas clean, it's very generic but I will be speaking him tonight to inform him of my wishes, hopefully he will let me go (yeah right).
Looking at conservatory's they apparently must be knocked through to the internal rooms to be counted as living space but there's still external doors between the two rooms so might make it as a temporary structure? Grasping at straws here
The contract doesn't mention anything specific to rooms only to keep the communal areas clean, it's very generic but I will be speaking him tonight to inform him of my wishes, hopefully he will let me go (yeah right).
Looking at conservatory's they apparently must be knocked through to the internal rooms to be counted as living space but there's still external doors between the two rooms so might make it as a temporary structure? Grasping at straws here
Edited by muffinmenace on Thursday 10th April 11:55
king the place up for you. Be polite, explain why you want to leave and I hope it goes well for you. Good luck and let us know what happens.mention quiet enjoyment (internal building work!)
discuss how it isn't going to be as it was when you signed up (less communal space / more people)
none of this was flagged up when you signed so close to the works or any notice at all by the sounds of it
and as ever always ask about how you deposit is protected
discuss how it isn't going to be as it was when you signed up (less communal space / more people)
none of this was flagged up when you signed so close to the works or any notice at all by the sounds of it
and as ever always ask about how you deposit is protected
I was once an owner of several HMOs in the Bristol area, so have dealt with Bristol City Council on the management of the same.
If the OP is a student, then best seek advice from either the university's student accommodation office or with B.C.C's Environmental Office. If not a student then again either with BCC or with a local Citizen Advice Bureau.
The legislation covering HMOs is the Housing Act 2004, the same being complex and open to differing interpretations, depending upon the local authority dealing with the HMO.
The increase in occupants is not just dependent upon the number and sizes of rooms, communal rooms included, but also the number of bath/showrooms and toilets, and the number of kitchen sinks, laundry facilities etc. Fire, smoke alarms, extinguisher and emergency lighting and fire exits, the same that can only be acceptable following an inspection by the local authority.
Raising your concerns with the landlord, and your wish to surrender immediately your tenancy agreement, could follow with your thoughts of taking your concerns to BCC.
If you have paid a security deposit to the landlord, and received no confirmation from the landlord that the Deposit has been protected under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, then at this POINT IN TIME, do NOT raise this matter with the landlord.
If the OP is a student, then best seek advice from either the university's student accommodation office or with B.C.C's Environmental Office. If not a student then again either with BCC or with a local Citizen Advice Bureau.
The legislation covering HMOs is the Housing Act 2004, the same being complex and open to differing interpretations, depending upon the local authority dealing with the HMO.
The increase in occupants is not just dependent upon the number and sizes of rooms, communal rooms included, but also the number of bath/showrooms and toilets, and the number of kitchen sinks, laundry facilities etc. Fire, smoke alarms, extinguisher and emergency lighting and fire exits, the same that can only be acceptable following an inspection by the local authority.
Raising your concerns with the landlord, and your wish to surrender immediately your tenancy agreement, could follow with your thoughts of taking your concerns to BCC.
If you have paid a security deposit to the landlord, and received no confirmation from the landlord that the Deposit has been protected under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, then at this POINT IN TIME, do NOT raise this matter with the landlord.
Wings said:
If you have paid a security deposit to the landlord, and received no confirmation from the landlord that the Deposit has been protected under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, then at this POINT IN TIME, do NOT raise this matter with the landlord.
I'm not a student and the LL has also not put the deposit into a scheme as he 'does not believe in them'. Anything further you can advise? As I said in my earlier post, contact both Bristol City Council housing/Environmental Office or your local Citizen Advice Bureau.
If your landlord has taken a Deposit from you, then the landlord has a legal responsibility not only to protect the Deposit within 30 days of receiving the same, but also within that same time period to advise you of that tenancy deposit scheme. Failure of your landlord to comply with either one or both of these under the legislation, not only restricts the landlord from serving a repossession Section 21 Notice on the tenant, but also the landlord could face court proceedings and a possible fine of up to 3 times the monthly rent amount.
This Shelter Housing link will provide you with further info on the Tenancy Deposit Scheme and on the HMO legislation :
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_d...
You can write to the landlord and request that he protects your Deposit, but since you have already mentioned the same to him, and ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. I would be incline to allow the 30 days to go bye, and if the Deposit is still not protected, then you be in a much stronger position to default and walk away from the tenancy.
If your landlord has taken a Deposit from you, then the landlord has a legal responsibility not only to protect the Deposit within 30 days of receiving the same, but also within that same time period to advise you of that tenancy deposit scheme. Failure of your landlord to comply with either one or both of these under the legislation, not only restricts the landlord from serving a repossession Section 21 Notice on the tenant, but also the landlord could face court proceedings and a possible fine of up to 3 times the monthly rent amount.
This Shelter Housing link will provide you with further info on the Tenancy Deposit Scheme and on the HMO legislation :
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_d...
You can write to the landlord and request that he protects your Deposit, but since you have already mentioned the same to him, and ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. I would be incline to allow the 30 days to go bye, and if the Deposit is still not protected, then you be in a much stronger position to default and walk away from the tenancy.
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