Speed awareness course question.
Discussion
Hi, I'm hoping someone can help on this one.
I've just been properly riled up by some idiot posting on a friends Facebook.
In short said friend was asking if anyone had a copy of the highway code to borrow, and one of her contacts has said:
Seeing the quoted text got me thinking. If the lecturer at a speed awareness course believes that one or more of the participants isn't taking the course seriously, or is generally cocking about, can they effectively 'fail' that person, and have them given a court date to explain themselves to a magistrate, or simply recommend that the points and fine be reinstated?
Really boiled my wee wee that one.
Anyway, had a good old rant, and recommended they do a RoSPA or IAM assessment if they are such the driving god, and posted a link to the liver run to give an example of, and hopefully a little understanding of why a retired police officer should be respected when they are telling you about your driving.
Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
I've just been properly riled up by some idiot posting on a friends Facebook.
In short said friend was asking if anyone had a copy of the highway code to borrow, and one of her contacts has said:
muppet on facebook said:
I've been on one. Retired police men teaching us all a lesson in driving. One fella fell asleep, i nearly fell off my chair laughing at him. cant even remember if we got lunch. Take a book to read and hide it under the table.
Now, I understand if people feel inconvenienced by it, but as I had pointed out earlier in the thread, £79 for the course is a bargain compared the 3 points and £100 for a ticket, and that the course, if listened to, and paid heed to, might help in future. Seeing the quoted text got me thinking. If the lecturer at a speed awareness course believes that one or more of the participants isn't taking the course seriously, or is generally cocking about, can they effectively 'fail' that person, and have them given a court date to explain themselves to a magistrate, or simply recommend that the points and fine be reinstated?
Really boiled my wee wee that one.
Anyway, had a good old rant, and recommended they do a RoSPA or IAM assessment if they are such the driving god, and posted a link to the liver run to give an example of, and hopefully a little understanding of why a retired police officer should be respected when they are telling you about your driving.
Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
Not sure why it got you so worked up TBH.
Fact is since they're all run by different people the course content will differ from area to area. So what may be a helpful, insightful day in one area may be a complete waste of time & money in another.
I learnt one or two things on the one I did but nothing that made me a safer or better driver.
Fact is since they're all run by different people the course content will differ from area to area. So what may be a helpful, insightful day in one area may be a complete waste of time & money in another.
I learnt one or two things on the one I did but nothing that made me a safer or better driver.
Presumably the OP hasn't been on one to make such a stupid rant?
I've now done two, the first wasn't too bad. The second was bloody horrendous. But both tolerate no discussion whether valid or not, they are we are right you are wrong. The second (both KCC officials), were just on a different planet & started on about economy driving with crap that everyone would question.
Easiest way is to zone out do the 4.5 hours & chalk it up to experience & you missed the 3 points/£100 bullet.
I've now done two, the first wasn't too bad. The second was bloody horrendous. But both tolerate no discussion whether valid or not, they are we are right you are wrong. The second (both KCC officials), were just on a different planet & started on about economy driving with crap that everyone would question.
Easiest way is to zone out do the 4.5 hours & chalk it up to experience & you missed the 3 points/£100 bullet.
I've been on one course, I've spoken with people about others.
I think it's fair to say most the courses are fairly good, and can be of use to drivers if the driver goes in with a good attitude and hopes to gain something from it.
I don't think it's any suprise that the decent people of the world tend to get some benefit from the courses, but the eternally angry shoulder chipped people come out complaining it's a waste of money and time.
To answer the OP.
It would be nice if people could be failed.
But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
I think it's fair to say most the courses are fairly good, and can be of use to drivers if the driver goes in with a good attitude and hopes to gain something from it.
I don't think it's any suprise that the decent people of the world tend to get some benefit from the courses, but the eternally angry shoulder chipped people come out complaining it's a waste of money and time.
To answer the OP.
It would be nice if people could be failed.
But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
Snowboy said:
I've been on one course, I've spoken with people about others.
I think it's fair to say most the courses are fairly good, and can be of use to drivers if the driver goes in with a good attitude and hopes to gain something from it.
I don't think it's any suprise that the decent people of the world tend to get some benefit from the courses, but the eternally angry shoulder chipped people come out complaining it's a waste of money and time.
To answer the OP.
It would be nice if people could be failed.
But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
Fairly sure you can be failed if your attitude isn't up to scratch.I think it's fair to say most the courses are fairly good, and can be of use to drivers if the driver goes in with a good attitude and hopes to gain something from it.
I don't think it's any suprise that the decent people of the world tend to get some benefit from the courses, but the eternally angry shoulder chipped people come out complaining it's a waste of money and time.
To answer the OP.
It would be nice if people could be failed.
But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
pork911 said:
themanwithnoname said:
Hi, I'm hoping someone can help on this one.
...
I've just been properly riled up by some idiot posting on a friends Facebook.
...
Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
Avoid facebook. If you can't do that, accept it for what it is....
I've just been properly riled up by some idiot posting on a friends Facebook.
...
Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
At least on Facebook you can decide who's posts you see.
themanwithnoname said:
Seeing the quoted text got me thinking. If the lecturer at a speed awareness course believes that one or more of the participants isn't taking the course seriously, or is generally cocking about, can they effectively 'fail' that person, and have them given a court date to explain themselves to a magistrate, or simply recommend that the points and fine be reinstated?
My understanding is that the offer to drop the prosecution is conditional on you 'passing' the course, not just turning up. I gather from speaking to people who have run courses that, while you'd have to try pretty damn hard, in principle it's possible to 'fail' the course and so still be prosecuted afterwards. An easier way to achieve that might be booking the course and then failing to turn up.I'm not sure whether you'd then end up in front of a magistrate - aren't courses only offered in cases that would otherwise just attract the fixed penalty?
themanwithnoname said:
Now, I understand if people feel inconvenienced by it, but as I had pointed out earlier in the thread, £79 for the course is a bargain compared the 3 points and £100 for a ticket
I'm not really sure why that is relevant. I assume from it that your time has little to no value though.themanwithnoname said:
H
Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
To be fair, I haven't done an SAC but I know plenty of family members, colleagues and friends who have and they're generally exactly as described. Any thoughts chaps and chapettes?
You can fail if you don't just quietly accept everything they say. Most people on the courses are older (exception was a colleague who got done by the M42 variable speed cameras - most on the course had been caught the same way and where 30/40yr old business people, wasting a day).
The one common comment that comes from attendees is it makes them realise how clueless other drivers are.
0000 said:
I'm not really sure why that is relevant. I assume from it that your time has little to no value though.
It depends on what else I'd be doing with that time.And how we each measure the cost of three points.
I wouldn't take time off from a paid job, nor would I cancel a holiday.
But sacrificing a few hours of TV or Gym time isn't much of a sacrifice.
Centurion07 said:
Snowboy said:
It would be nice if people could be failed.
But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
Fairly sure you can be failed if your attitude isn't up to scratch.But I think it's attendance based - so long as they stay for the duration then they pass.
Reading a book under the table or sleeping would definitely have been noticed.
I thought the course was a waste of time except to save me from 3 points.
Condescending and thoroughly boring.... they just play the 'BRAKE' speed kills game and not thinking about careless / dangerous driving etc.
There is no point having a discussion with though as they just reel out the same propaganda... if you a child at 20/30/40 etc.
Now I certainly don't condone speeding in built up areas and yes I got caught doing 40mph in a 30mph which was my fault, entered a very small village on a main road - NSL to 30mph and the trap was 100m inside, so I should have slowed in time, but didn't. Annoying as I tend to stick below the speed limits in 30's.
And they do warn that anyone not paying attention could be failed.
The biggest shock to me were the number of people who have no idea about the Highway code and most think NSL = 50mph and NSL dual carriageways are 60mph... So maybe for some it is worth it just to speed them up ;-)
Condescending and thoroughly boring.... they just play the 'BRAKE' speed kills game and not thinking about careless / dangerous driving etc.
There is no point having a discussion with though as they just reel out the same propaganda... if you a child at 20/30/40 etc.
Now I certainly don't condone speeding in built up areas and yes I got caught doing 40mph in a 30mph which was my fault, entered a very small village on a main road - NSL to 30mph and the trap was 100m inside, so I should have slowed in time, but didn't. Annoying as I tend to stick below the speed limits in 30's.
And they do warn that anyone not paying attention could be failed.
The biggest shock to me were the number of people who have no idea about the Highway code and most think NSL = 50mph and NSL dual carriageways are 60mph... So maybe for some it is worth it just to speed them up ;-)
Well, that hasn't gone as I'd thought it might. Ahh well.
To address a few responses
Re-read my OP, ignore the vitriol (which I appreciate is probably unneeded)
It triggered a thought, and thus a question.
I was given to believe PH is the better resource for asking S, P & L questions.
I wasn't criticising facebook as such, just one of its users.
Anyway, thanks for the couple of good replies.
The feedback my wife has given me from the course she attended was that the course holder welcomed conversation and challenges if one of the participants felt the need, and that it was a two way thing. She came away saying that it was a positive experience, and adjusted her attitude accordingly.
More fool me it appears for having some expectations...
To address a few responses
Funkycoldribena said:
Yep.Walk out front door.Get a life.
Constructive, thanks. Re-read my OP, ignore the vitriol (which I appreciate is probably unneeded)
Snowboy said:
There's a huge irony about people using PH forums to criticise Facebook.
At least on Facebook you can decide who's posts you see.
Good point, but sadly this was a friend of a friend who was asking for help - i.e. to borrow a copy of the highway code, and got my OP as a response. At least on Facebook you can decide who's posts you see.
It triggered a thought, and thus a question.
I was given to believe PH is the better resource for asking S, P & L questions.
I wasn't criticising facebook as such, just one of its users.
0000 said:
I'm not really sure why that is relevant. I assume from it that your time has little to no value though.
I agree, not really relevant, though I personally value a clean license for £79 and four hours of education (my time) at greater value than I do three points, £100 and a few years of an insurance declarable offense, if that helps? TooMany2cvs said:
Yep, you can. The paperwork I received before mine was very clear on that, and the instructors made sure everybody was well aware of it at the start.
Reading a book under the table or sleeping would definitely have been noticed.
That is very much the sort of thing I was hoping to hear. Thanks. Reading a book under the table or sleeping would definitely have been noticed.
Anyway, thanks for the couple of good replies.
The feedback my wife has given me from the course she attended was that the course holder welcomed conversation and challenges if one of the participants felt the need, and that it was a two way thing. She came away saying that it was a positive experience, and adjusted her attitude accordingly.
More fool me it appears for having some expectations...
themanwithnoname said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yep, you can. The paperwork I received before mine was very clear on that, and the instructors made sure everybody was well aware of it at the start.
Reading a book under the table or sleeping would definitely have been noticed.
That is very much the sort of thing I was hoping to hear. Thanks. Reading a book under the table or sleeping would definitely have been noticed.
Anyway, thanks for the couple of good replies.
The feedback my wife has given me from the course she attended was that the course holder welcomed conversation and challenges if one of the participants felt the need, and that it was a two way thing. She came away saying that it was a positive experience, and adjusted her attitude accordingly.
More fool me it appears for having some expectations...
http://www.ttc-uk.com/SpeedAwareness.aspx
themanwithnoname said:
The feedback my wife has given me from the course she attended was that the course holder welcomed conversation and challenges if one of the participants felt the need, and that it was a two way thing. She came away saying that it was a positive experience, and adjusted her attitude accordingly.
Sounds like she'd benefit from proper driver training.Most people would, but they don't recognise it. These courses used to involve actual driving, but now they're doing little more than generating money for the sake of keeping people in jobs.
NPI said:
Sounds like she'd benefit from proper driver training.
Most people would, but they don't recognise it. These courses used to involve actual driving, but now they're doing little more than generating money for the sake of keeping people in jobs.
Have speed awareness courses ever involved actual driving? I know NDIS/NDAC, the courses that might be offered as an alternative to a careless driving prosecution do, but I thought speed awareness course had always been classroom based.Most people would, but they don't recognise it. These courses used to involve actual driving, but now they're doing little more than generating money for the sake of keeping people in jobs.
NPI said:
Sounds like she'd benefit from proper driver training.
Most people would, but they don't recognise it. These courses used to involve actual driving, but now they're doing little more than generating money for the sake of keeping people in jobs.
You are right, and after she bought me a RoSPA course off the back of the SAC she was on, and saw how much I enjoyed and got out of it, booked herself on the next intake. Most people would, but they don't recognise it. These courses used to involve actual driving, but now they're doing little more than generating money for the sake of keeping people in jobs.
SK425 said:
Have speed awareness courses ever involved actual driving? I know NDIS/NDAC, the courses that might be offered as an alternative to a careless driving prosecution do, but I thought speed awareness course had always been classroom based.
Not SAC's themselves, that's a national program. Before there was a more random approach and some areas did have couses that involved on-road driving.Like you say, there are careless driving and alertness courses which have driving, but I don't think they're offered everywhere.
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