Taking possesion of a car in lieu of payment
Discussion
Hi, I have searched on this... and no I don't want anything from a field. :P
I have a business contact who has a car tying up vital space in the workshop (he is a bodywork repair / sprayer )
It has been over a year that the person who asked for the restoration of the car ( a Saab 900 ) and they have not paid despite several requests.
What is the best way to take possession of the cat in lieu of payment, with everything being above board?
I guess apply for the V5, and when it gets sent to the original owner they will have to give the DVLA detail so he can be chased and then start serving notices for payment?
I don't think the person wants the car or is able to pay for the restoration but will not communicate. The space and recovering the money ( and storage costs ) would be very useful. He has beem conscientious enough not to just let it rot outside, so should sell for decent money.
I have a business contact who has a car tying up vital space in the workshop (he is a bodywork repair / sprayer )
It has been over a year that the person who asked for the restoration of the car ( a Saab 900 ) and they have not paid despite several requests.
What is the best way to take possession of the cat in lieu of payment, with everything being above board?
I guess apply for the V5, and when it gets sent to the original owner they will have to give the DVLA detail so he can be chased and then start serving notices for payment?
I don't think the person wants the car or is able to pay for the restoration but will not communicate. The space and recovering the money ( and storage costs ) would be very useful. He has beem conscientious enough not to just let it rot outside, so should sell for decent money.
IANAL but i belive you would have to go to court and they would decide to sell the car and use the proceeds to cover what he is owed.
Edit to add
"A lien can take many different forms and, as such, lien law can be extremely convoluted. It is an area of law that requires expert knowledge and you are always recommended to obtain expert legal advice with anything relating to liens.
To give a simple definition, a lien is putting a charge or claim on something until a debt on it is repaid. Perhaps the most common example is that of a mortgage. When you take out a mortgage, a form of security is put on the property. This security remains until the full amount is paid back. Another example commonly used to explain lien law is that of a mechanic and a car. If a mechanic carries out work on a car, they may claim a lien over the car until the cost of repair is paid. If the person who owns the car does not pay for the work, a court may well decide to sell the car and use the proceeds of sale to pay the mechanic for the work carried out."
Edit to add
"A lien can take many different forms and, as such, lien law can be extremely convoluted. It is an area of law that requires expert knowledge and you are always recommended to obtain expert legal advice with anything relating to liens.
To give a simple definition, a lien is putting a charge or claim on something until a debt on it is repaid. Perhaps the most common example is that of a mortgage. When you take out a mortgage, a form of security is put on the property. This security remains until the full amount is paid back. Another example commonly used to explain lien law is that of a mechanic and a car. If a mechanic carries out work on a car, they may claim a lien over the car until the cost of repair is paid. If the person who owns the car does not pay for the work, a court may well decide to sell the car and use the proceeds of sale to pay the mechanic for the work carried out."
APB, I can tell that you are not a lawyer because you have given an incorrect answer.
OP, if the car is in England or Wales, the answer is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/sectio...
OP, if the car is in England or Wales, the answer is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/sectio...
PS: The bailee here is the OP's friend. The bailor here is the owner of the Saab. Bailment is the legal term for placing an item of property with someone else.
The thread, BTW, is somewhat misnamed. The OP's friend already has possession of the car. What he needs is the right to sell it to recoup his costs (accounting to the car's owner for any surplus funds received from sale). He can obtain this right without going to Court if he complies with the procedure set out in section 12 of the 1977 Act, linked to above.
V5 - irrelevant. It is not proof of ownership. Cunning Clue: it says this on every single V5.
The thread, BTW, is somewhat misnamed. The OP's friend already has possession of the car. What he needs is the right to sell it to recoup his costs (accounting to the car's owner for any surplus funds received from sale). He can obtain this right without going to Court if he complies with the procedure set out in section 12 of the 1977 Act, linked to above.
V5 - irrelevant. It is not proof of ownership. Cunning Clue: it says this on every single V5.
Breadvan72 said:
APB, I can tell that you are not a lawyer because you have given an incorrect answer.
OP, if the car is in England or Wales, the answer is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/sectio...
A question, if I may:OP, if the car is in England or Wales, the answer is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/sectio...
Would 'the best sale method reasonably available' include something simple such as eBay? I understand the definition of reasonable but am querying the practical application.
If the car is the rarest Ferrari in the World, then eBay is not the best effort. Use one of the posh auction houses. If the car is a boggo Saab 900, then eBay would be fine, I reckon. Suppose that it's still a Saab, but this time a Saab Sonnett. In that case try Car and Classic. In other words "it depends...".
Ok, thanks for covering how to sell it legally. However I am not quite clear on how to get the V5 into the garage / garage owners name. Just write to the DVLA and inform them of the situation and hope after the original person doesn't respond then sell it?
I know that the V5 is not ownership but selling a car with no V5 is obviously very difficult?
I appreciate the advice.
I know that the V5 is not ownership but selling a car with no V5 is obviously very difficult?
I appreciate the advice.
Experienced garage dudes use the 1977 Act all the time (well, not that often, but a bit) and doing so is usually no biggie, or so I gather from talking to a few such blokes. As for the V5, I would not bother so much about that as the sale circumstances should be explained to the buyer as a matter of prudence, but you can write to the DVLA and get a V5.
The sale price may be discounted to reflect the risk that the former owner could pop up and give the buyer a beef (the buyer will be protected if the 1977 Act has been complied with, but there could still be hassle in fending off a claim)
NB NB NB NB: The law is different if the car is in Scotland.
The sale price may be discounted to reflect the risk that the former owner could pop up and give the buyer a beef (the buyer will be protected if the 1977 Act has been complied with, but there could still be hassle in fending off a claim)
NB NB NB NB: The law is different if the car is in Scotland.
Ah ok. The car is in Croydon and has been in the workshop for a year!
I can't imagine anyone buying a car without a V5, do you know anyone that would touch one with a 10ft bargepole? If so I will try that but after a year a few weeks trying to get the V5 re-assigned would be the most profitable route I hope!
I imagine with the storage costs and the restoration costs outstrip the value now, so keen to het top money for the car.
Thanks for the help!
I can't imagine anyone buying a car without a V5, do you know anyone that would touch one with a 10ft bargepole? If so I will try that but after a year a few weeks trying to get the V5 re-assigned would be the most profitable route I hope!
I imagine with the storage costs and the restoration costs outstrip the value now, so keen to het top money for the car.
Thanks for the help!
Given that a V5 is not proof of ownership, I would not let its presence or absence alone determine my decision to buy a car. I either believe that the seller is entitled to sell it, or I don't. The absence of a V5 might but not must be a sign that something is amiss. The presence of a V5 might in some cases be a false positive.
By the way, how has your "business associate" magically morphed into you, eh? What is this Forum bulls
t about "my friend has a problem". This isn't a Clap Clinic.
By the way, how has your "business associate" magically morphed into you, eh? What is this Forum bulls
t about "my friend has a problem". This isn't a Clap Clinic. Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 8th May 15:38
Eh? I am acting to get the car back on my business associates behalf. I have nothing to hide and I've no idea why PH has started down this route of trying to pick holes in everything the OP says! 
I'm just asking people for advice, which I appreciate Breadvan, however this guy has been sitting on this car and is not doing anything about it after a year. I saw it on Tues night and asked why he hasn't done x/y/z and he told me that he wished he could. So *he* is clearly not going to do it , if he hasn't already / hasn't worked it out, so I am stepping in. If you had seen me weld you would know I don't work in a bodyshop.
I would like to do him a favour and so I will be trying to get the letters sent etc as he's a bodywork / spraying guy and no good at this stuff. You wouldn't get me to spray a wing and you wouldn't get him to call the DVLA etc and write to the client. It's just not his bag.
So its going to be me doing the work to get rid of the thing. I am sure he'll sort me out with something, I'm not doing it for free I admit that freely but this Saab isn't mine. I don't even have the desireable parking for my own car let alone having this yellow beast hanging around for a year.
Back on topic, I am not experienced in buying a car without a V5 and have always had the slip filled in and sent it off myself so I know its all good. I know your point is 100% correct but in the real world I don't know of many people that would know what to do when buying a car without the V5. Point taken but I think if we can get it all above board before hand and then we can sell the car off with much less problems and perhaps get the right sort of buyer.
yes, you did read correctly. It is in yellow. Great nick but still in Yellow! I am not sure how that is going to go down as a Yellow Saab 900 conv. To be honest its sitting in the side of one of the spray booths being a pain in the @rse so perhaps he would be pleased to just be legally rid of the thing! Any extra money would be a bonus I bet.
I'm just asking people for advice, which I appreciate Breadvan, however this guy has been sitting on this car and is not doing anything about it after a year. I saw it on Tues night and asked why he hasn't done x/y/z and he told me that he wished he could. So *he* is clearly not going to do it , if he hasn't already / hasn't worked it out, so I am stepping in. If you had seen me weld you would know I don't work in a bodyshop.
I would like to do him a favour and so I will be trying to get the letters sent etc as he's a bodywork / spraying guy and no good at this stuff. You wouldn't get me to spray a wing and you wouldn't get him to call the DVLA etc and write to the client. It's just not his bag.
So its going to be me doing the work to get rid of the thing. I am sure he'll sort me out with something, I'm not doing it for free I admit that freely but this Saab isn't mine. I don't even have the desireable parking for my own car let alone having this yellow beast hanging around for a year.
Back on topic, I am not experienced in buying a car without a V5 and have always had the slip filled in and sent it off myself so I know its all good. I know your point is 100% correct but in the real world I don't know of many people that would know what to do when buying a car without the V5. Point taken but I think if we can get it all above board before hand and then we can sell the car off with much less problems and perhaps get the right sort of buyer.
yes, you did read correctly. It is in yellow. Great nick but still in Yellow! I am not sure how that is going to go down as a Yellow Saab 900 conv. To be honest its sitting in the side of one of the spray booths being a pain in the @rse so perhaps he would be pleased to just be legally rid of the thing! Any extra money would be a bonus I bet.
Edited by BluePurpleRed on Thursday 8th May 16:16
Breadvan72 said:
PS: The bailee here is the OP's friend. The bailor here is the owner of the Saab. Bailment is the legal term for placing an item of property with someone else.
The thread, BTW, is somewhat misnamed. The OP's friend already has possession of the car. What he needs is the right to sell it to recoup his costs (accounting to the car's owner for any surplus funds received from sale). He can obtain this right without going to Court if he complies with the procedure set out in section 12 of the 1977 Act, linked to above.
V5 - irrelevant. It is not proof of ownership. Cunning Clue: it says this on every single V5.
So, what if the person who put he car into the shop is not the owner? The bailor may not be the (legal) owner. How would he "account to the car's owner for any surplus funds received from sale" if he doesn't know who the owner is? When you take your car for repair you don't usually sign something to say that you are the owner The thread, BTW, is somewhat misnamed. The OP's friend already has possession of the car. What he needs is the right to sell it to recoup his costs (accounting to the car's owner for any surplus funds received from sale). He can obtain this right without going to Court if he complies with the procedure set out in section 12 of the 1977 Act, linked to above.
V5 - irrelevant. It is not proof of ownership. Cunning Clue: it says this on every single V5.
The bailee's obligation under the Act is to account to the bailor. If the bailor is not the owner of the car, the Act specifies that the bailee cannot pass good title to it as against the owner. In that event, an application to Court would be the prudent course.
If in any situation someone holds funds and does not know to whom they should be paid, or where the person entitled to the funds is, there is a court process called an interpleader under which the fundholder can pay the money into court and be quit of obligations.
If in any situation someone holds funds and does not know to whom they should be paid, or where the person entitled to the funds is, there is a court process called an interpleader under which the fundholder can pay the money into court and be quit of obligations.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff