cyclists and zebra crossing
Discussion
Was just behind a car who didn't stop for a zebra crossing when some guy cycling on the pavement wanted to cycle across to continue riding on the other pavement.
Que a lot of shouting and angry gestures from both, which only stopped when the traffic behind us started beeping because the argument was now holding up everyone.
In the car's defence, the cyclist should not have been on the pavement, its a quiet road which is wide enough for a car and bike in either direction.
Also, its a pedestrian crossing, and a cyclist is not a pedestrian. So surely a bike does not have right of way on a pedestrian crossing right? I take it If witnessed by police no offence would have taken place?
Que a lot of shouting and angry gestures from both, which only stopped when the traffic behind us started beeping because the argument was now holding up everyone.
In the car's defence, the cyclist should not have been on the pavement, its a quiet road which is wide enough for a car and bike in either direction.
Also, its a pedestrian crossing, and a cyclist is not a pedestrian. So surely a bike does not have right of way on a pedestrian crossing right? I take it If witnessed by police no offence would have taken place?
A cyclist is on a vehicle and must push their bike across on foot for cars to legally be required to stop for them. Whether you should or not is a different matter entirely.
Also from TFL study (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/cyclists-use-of-zebra-crossings.pdf):
It is not illegal to cycle across a Zebra crossing if there is shared-use to
either side, but it is contrary to Rule 64 of the Highway Code which
states that cyclists should dismount and walk across Zebra crossings.
Also from TFL study (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/cyclists-use-of-zebra-crossings.pdf):
It is not illegal to cycle across a Zebra crossing if there is shared-use to
either side, but it is contrary to Rule 64 of the Highway Code which
states that cyclists should dismount and walk across Zebra crossings.
Anyone hurt? If not, move on. I'm not anti-cyclist, but I can understand how a cyclist may find it easier to bend the rules as there is relatively little come back on them for breaking the law unless caught red handed by an officer of that law. No reg plate or other easy way of identifying a bike.
That, coupled with a sense of vulnerability would, I imagine, give some cyclists a mindset that they can do what they like really. Some motorcyclists are like this and so are some van drivers, bus, lorry, car, everything really to some extent. The problems start when someone gets hurt or something gets damaged.
That, coupled with a sense of vulnerability would, I imagine, give some cyclists a mindset that they can do what they like really. Some motorcyclists are like this and so are some van drivers, bus, lorry, car, everything really to some extent. The problems start when someone gets hurt or something gets damaged.
If the car didn't stop - how did the cyclist and driver end up having an argument?
I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
A cyclist sped out into the zebra crossing without looking causing a car to brake hard.
A cyclist was on the crossing and the driver came up aggressively to them beeping and barging.
I know there's a badly placed zebra crossing in Leamington right be a corner - so pedestrians can be visible for less than 1.5 metres before they cross.
I also know pedestrians are supposed to stop before crossing - but they don't; because pedestrians are idiots.
I know that if a cyclist came round that corner and onto the crossing in front I'd me I'd have done words to say.
But, conversely, if the were crossing the other way I would have seen then ages before the crossing and have had plenty of time to stop.
I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
A cyclist sped out into the zebra crossing without looking causing a car to brake hard.
A cyclist was on the crossing and the driver came up aggressively to them beeping and barging.
I know there's a badly placed zebra crossing in Leamington right be a corner - so pedestrians can be visible for less than 1.5 metres before they cross.
I also know pedestrians are supposed to stop before crossing - but they don't; because pedestrians are idiots.
I know that if a cyclist came round that corner and onto the crossing in front I'd me I'd have done words to say.
But, conversely, if the were crossing the other way I would have seen then ages before the crossing and have had plenty of time to stop.
Greg66 said:
Irrespective of the legalities, simple litmus test here: what would you wish the driver to do if it were your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc waiting to cross the zebra on their bike?
If they were waiting to cross it makes little difference what the driver does, if they were actually crossing I would want the driver to stop.I will put the question back at you though.
Would you want/teach your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc to cycle across a zebra crossing assuming that drivers will stop ?
Snowboy said:
If the car didn't stop - how did the cyclist and driver end up having an argument?
I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
I saw the cyclist flying past a few school kids on the kerb, going quite fast and though to myself 'you dick'.I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
Cyclist then approached pedestrian crossing sands had to brake and come to a halt because car in front me didn't stop.
cyclist crosses behind the car without even looking if I was stopping or not.
2 car length further up to road another car is waiting to turn right with oncoming traffic so we all stop.
Cyclist drives past stationary car and stars shouting, car opens window and shouts back Road now clear but argument still going on, holding up traffic.
Cyclist then continues on pavement driving like a knob trying to avoid pedestrians and old person with dog.
Corpulent Tosser said:
If they were waiting to cross it makes little difference what the driver does, if they were actually crossing I would want the driver to stop.
I will put the question back at you though.
Would you want/teach your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc to cycle across a zebra crossing assuming that drivers will stop ?
Assuming - no. Expecting - yes. I will put the question back at you though.
Would you want/teach your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc to cycle across a zebra crossing assuming that drivers will stop ?
Got to agree with CT on this. It might very well be your right of way, but you have to look after yourself & wait for traffic to stop before crossing. The driver might not be able to stop for various reasons.
Lying on the floor with a broken leg saying 'It was my right of way' won't fix your broken leg.
Lying on the floor with a broken leg saying 'It was my right of way' won't fix your broken leg.
Medic-one said:
Snowboy said:
If the car didn't stop - how did the cyclist and driver end up having an argument?
I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
I saw the cyclist flying past a few school kids on the kerb, going quite fast and though to myself 'you dick'.I get the feeling that perhaps we have half a story here.
What happened?
Cyclist then approached pedestrian crossing sands had to brake and come to a halt because car in front me didn't stop.
cyclist crosses behind the car without even looking if I was stopping or not.
2 car length further up to road another car is waiting to turn right with oncoming traffic so we all stop.
Cyclist drives past stationary car and stars shouting, car opens window and shouts back Road now clear but argument still going on, holding up traffic.
Cyclist then continues on pavement driving like a knob trying to avoid pedestrians and old person with dog.
Also sounds like first driver was a cock too - if they could see someone approaching the crossing to not let them cross just seems t
ttish.Greg66 said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
If they were waiting to cross it makes little difference what the driver does, if they were actually crossing I would want the driver to stop.
I will put the question back at you though.
Would you want/teach your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc to cycle across a zebra crossing assuming that drivers will stop ?
Assuming - no. Expecting - yes. I will put the question back at you though.
Would you want/teach your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc to cycle across a zebra crossing assuming that drivers will stop ?
Greg66 said:
Irrespective of the legalities, simple litmus test here: what would you wish the driver to do if it were your son/daughter/nephew/godchild/etc waiting to cross the zebra on their bike?
Simple, if I ever knew they were ever in this situation, their bikes would be confiscated.And it is not a legal requirement for traffic to stop for people WAITING to cross.
"Zebra crossings
Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."
Mr GrimNasty said:
Simple, if I ever knew they were ever in this situation, their bikes would be confiscated.
And it is not a legal requirement for traffic to stop for people WAITING to cross.
"Zebra crossings
Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."
Contrast that (rule 19) with rule 135: And it is not a legal requirement for traffic to stop for people WAITING to cross.
"Zebra crossings
Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."
195
Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing
- look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
- you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
- allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
- do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
- be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.
No legal requirement to allow a person to step out when they are waiting to cross, but advisory to slow/stop to allow them to do so.
It's a long time since I did my driving test, but I am pretty sure that not stopping at a zebra once a pedestrian had turned to cross it and was waiting at the kerb was a fail. What's the teaching nowadays?
Greg66 said:
It's a long time since I did my driving test, but I am pretty sure that not stopping at a zebra once a pedestrian had turned to cross it and was waiting at the kerb was a fail. What's the teaching nowadays?
At a guess, a pedestrian waiting to cross is treated similar to an amber traffic light. While not stopping for either of them is not technically breaking the law, it's still enough to fail the test.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff