Releasing noise from the exhaust. Legality.
Discussion
Government website says this:
All exhaust silencers must be maintained in a good and efficient working order. You will be breaking the law if you remove a silencer or make any modification that would make that vehicle emit a noise louder than the original exhaust before it was modified.
Clearly there are many modified exhausts on the road that make their respective cars louder than stock. Does fitting a louder rear silencer negate the above paragraph? Once its welded in does it become the 'new' exhaust which means if you started poking holes in it(hypothetically), it would then become illegal as you have tampered with the silencer?
At what point do the authorities actually begin to care that you have a more interesting exhaust note? What happens when they do?
I'd like to extract as much noise from my next car as possible, without barrying it and while remaining within the confines of the law.
Can anybody offer any thoughts to turn the grey into black and white?
All exhaust silencers must be maintained in a good and efficient working order. You will be breaking the law if you remove a silencer or make any modification that would make that vehicle emit a noise louder than the original exhaust before it was modified.
Clearly there are many modified exhausts on the road that make their respective cars louder than stock. Does fitting a louder rear silencer negate the above paragraph? Once its welded in does it become the 'new' exhaust which means if you started poking holes in it(hypothetically), it would then become illegal as you have tampered with the silencer?
At what point do the authorities actually begin to care that you have a more interesting exhaust note? What happens when they do?
I'd like to extract as much noise from my next car as possible, without barrying it and while remaining within the confines of the law.
Can anybody offer any thoughts to turn the grey into black and white?
No offence but isn't the wording pretty unambiguous already?
If you modify your exhaust to make more noise than it had when type approved then you're committing an offence, whether that's a replacement backbox, welded section or holes drilled into it.
That the Police don't tend to enforce this rigidly doesn't alter the substantive charge. They could, and probably would if you're being arsey enough with them (or if VOSA are nearby).
If you modify your exhaust to make more noise than it had when type approved then you're committing an offence, whether that's a replacement backbox, welded section or holes drilled into it.
That the Police don't tend to enforce this rigidly doesn't alter the substantive charge. They could, and probably would if you're being arsey enough with them (or if VOSA are nearby).
WetPaint said:
While the wording is direct and obvious, The fact many cars are clearly louder than stock makes it a bit grey.
Its discretion that allows it then.
It's probably a combination of discretion, unfamiliarity with C&U regs and them having more important things to deal with. Its discretion that allows it then.
It seems to be one of those things that tend to be brought up when someone has been particularly antagonistic towards them, though making enough noise in earshot of TrafPol could result in a pull if they think your exhaust noise is ridiculously anti-social.
FWIW I drove around with black & silver numberplates on my 04 plate car (I thought it looked cool, ok??) for about 6 months, with Police cars behind me once or twice in that time, before finally being pulled by a cop who was into classic car restoration (and so clearly knew the rules about how old cars had to be to have them legally). It would not surprise me greatly if a number of serving Police officers didn't know it was an offence, or know enough about a particular car to be able to say clearly that it's not the standard exhaust note.
Again, if you make a point of drawing attention don't be surprised if that's exactly what you get.
15 pages on http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Norfolk police have a lot of previous on this.
Age of car is also going to be relevant as if the car pre-dates type approval, my understanding is none of what they say applies. My vintage car makes over 100dBA. And if they were to insist on originality - it would be even noisier!
Norfolk police have a lot of previous on this.
Age of car is also going to be relevant as if the car pre-dates type approval, my understanding is none of what they say applies. My vintage car makes over 100dBA. And if they were to insist on originality - it would be even noisier!
It would be interesting to find out exactly how long that interpretation has been around for.The fact is people have been modifying exhausts with straight through systems for years with no such wording ever being applied to such modifications.
The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qhbS8UWf58
The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qhbS8UWf58
XJ Flyer said:
It would be interesting to find out exactly how long that interpretation has been around for.The fact is people have been modifying exhausts with straight through systems for years with no such wording ever being applied to such modifications.
The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
Since 1986.The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...
Lowtimer said:
XJ Flyer said:
It would be interesting to find out exactly how long that interpretation has been around for.The fact is people have been modifying exhausts with straight through systems for years with no such wording ever being applied to such modifications.
The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
Since 1986.The question is has there been a recent change in government policy and if so when and did that change involve it's implementation to be applied retrospectively to any car registered before that change in policy.Everything points to raving LibDem government policies without a LibDem vote or mandate.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...
Lowtimer said:
That's not what it says, but if you want to believe it says that, feel free.
So the obvious simple question is did the government introduce a 'retrospective' policy of no exhaust modifications allowed in 1986 or not.The fact that people have been doing so for years previous to that and since would suggest not being that the law is based on precedent.However if it was always in existence then what is the reference to 1986 all about and if it was introduced in 1986 where is the wording which made it a retrospective ruling applying to modified cars previous to that date.That's even assuming anything happened in 1986 at all which as I've said I don't remember.
The whole thing seems like yet more very recent control freak re writing of the rule book to suit a political agenda which just wasn't there in 1986 nor previous to that or since at least until relatively recently.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 19th May 15:56
hman said:
Fact is, a louder than stock exhaust is illegal.
Whether you get prosecuted is a matter for the police to decide.
If you dont want to run the risk - then dont make your car louder than stock.
Or in other words yet more PC EU LabLibDemCon type control freakery which didn't exist previously.The obvious implication being no performance modifications allowed at all.Which is exactly the recent situation of the interpretation of EU law in places like Germany.The whole issue is something new and it's just a Trojan horse for something far more sinister and draconian regarding the previous freedom which we've had to modify cars. Whether you get prosecuted is a matter for the police to decide.
If you dont want to run the risk - then dont make your car louder than stock.
The whole issue has been on the books since 1986. If you think that qualifies as "new", then that's your problem.
Your point about retrospection is a massive red herring.
No wording about retrospection is required because it is not retrospective. The regulation applies from the time it comes into force. The age of the car is immaterial. It is quite possible that a specific modified exhaust was legal prior to the regulation, but became illegal with adoption of the 1986 regulations. That is not retroactive regulation.
Retroactive regulation would be if (for example) the regulation meant you could be prosecuted in 1986 for an exhaust on a car you scrapped in 1975. That's not what happened.
The fact that can't remember the 1986 regs coming in suggests only that you weren't paying attention to the activities of Parliament in 1986, which is neither here nor there.
XJ Flyer said:
So the obvious simple question is did the government introduce a 'retrospective' policy of no exhaust modifications allowed in 1986 or not.The fact that people have been doing so for years previous to that and since would suggest not being that the law is based on precedent.
What it actually suggests is that the police were not terribly concerned about enforcing it except when they particularly wanted to, i.e. in unusually bad cases or where they thought someone was taking the mick. XJ Flyer said:
However if it was always in existence then what is the reference to 1986 all about and if it was introduced in 1986 where is the wording which made it a retrospective ruling applying to modified cars previous to that date.That's even assuming anything happened in 1986 at all which as I've said I don't remember.
It wasn't *always* in existence, and no-one's suggested that it was. The reference to 1986 is that modifying a car exhaust to make it noisier is illegal under the 1986 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, which (forgive me if I am going too quickly for you) were passed in, er, 1986.Your point about retrospection is a massive red herring.
No wording about retrospection is required because it is not retrospective. The regulation applies from the time it comes into force. The age of the car is immaterial. It is quite possible that a specific modified exhaust was legal prior to the regulation, but became illegal with adoption of the 1986 regulations. That is not retroactive regulation.
Retroactive regulation would be if (for example) the regulation meant you could be prosecuted in 1986 for an exhaust on a car you scrapped in 1975. That's not what happened.
The fact that can't remember the 1986 regs coming in suggests only that you weren't paying attention to the activities of Parliament in 1986, which is neither here nor there.
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 19th May 16:26
Lowtimer said:
Er, no. The whole issue has been on the books since 1986. If you think that qualifies as "new", then that's your problem.
Or more like the whole issue is something more recent that's being made out to look like it was 'on the books' since 1986.Which still leaves the question as to wether it was meant to be applied retrospectively to cars registered before that date.Which would be different to the way in which most other c and u rulings are implemented.
The fact is there were no rules which stopped the modification of exhausts or any other aspect of a car's design before that date and from memory none at the time or since.There really isn't any way that such a ruling could be enforced without it having much larger implications regarding modifications of all types.IE louder/different than standard exhausts and/or much faster than standard in others or possibly both.
It's obvious that this is going to be louder/different exhaust wise and most other aspects than standard.Under the interpretation the car would have to be returned to standard and it's obvious that an SD1 exhaust system isn't going to work with a Merlin/Meteor.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1BnhZsS8a0
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 19th May 16:28
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 19th May 16:31
Oh , FFS. You think that the whole parliamentary estate has conspired to forge the 1986 regs, which never existed at the time, and your evidence of this is that you don't remember them coming in.
Got any good theories for who did 9/11?
Got any good theories for who did 9/11?
XJ Flyer said:
Which still leaves the question as to wether it was meant to be applied retrospectively
Only in your wondrous and fertile imagination. See above.Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 19th May 16:30
Lowtimer said:
Oh , FFS. You think that the whole parliamentary estate has conspired to forge the 1986 regs, which never existed at the time, and your evidence of this is that you don't remember them coming in.
Got any good theories for who did 9/11?
Considering that global warming was never in the news in the 1970's an honest answer would be yes the government is dressing up recent EU bullsGot any good theories for who did 9/11?
XJ Flyer said:
Which still leaves the question as to wether it was meant to be applied retrospectively
Only in your wondrous and fertile imagination. See above.Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 19th May 16:30
t as long established UK law.While as I've said what would the law say about a Merlin/Meteor powered Rover SD1.If the answer is no not allowed then what changed and when.Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 19th May 16:38
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