Paramedics on Radio 5 Live this morning

[Steve vRS]

Interesting this as there were paramedics on who, and I may not be quoting them correctly, were saying that poor driving is putting patients at risk. Reference was made to people not pulling out of the way of ambulances into bus lanes or through red lights.

This was followed up by someone from the IAM saying that if you do pull into a bus lane etc. you are breaking the law and no one should advise you to do so as by giving that advise they are breaking the law. It is up to the driver to make a 'moral' decision as to let an ambulance through and risk prosecution or not.

Thoughts?

Steve

[zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

It should be a statutory defence to using a bus lane or passing through a red light that you were aiding an emergency vehicle in order to do so.

Perhaps a specialist could answer, but I would have thought a Special Reasons argument might be something for a red light offence.

[Chipmunk1]

There is a very long thread about it here somewhere, the jist of it, you will get fined and or points even if you are aiding an emergency vehicle

[DaveH23]

Chipmunk1 said:

There is a very long thread about it here somewhere, the jist of it, you will get fined and or points even if you are aiding an emergency vehicle

Whilst this is correct I have always assisted them where possible. Might just be me but id happily take a risk sacraficing a few quid to save someones life, would also like to think somebody else would do the same for me.

[Steve vRS]

Do emergency vehicles have trackers in them that record their journeys when they have their lights on? Could a driver use this information to justify any violation?

Steve

[Dave Hedgehog]

Chipmunk1 said:

There is a very long thread about it here somewhere, the jist of it, you will get fined and or points even if you are aiding an emergency vehicle

correct, i will now no longer break the law to get out of there way

[Dave Hedgehog]

Steve vRS said:

Do emergency vehicles have trackers in them that record their journeys when they have their lights on? Could a driver use this information to justify any violation?

Steve

an associate at work got done for going through a red light a few years back, the CCTV footage showed he was letting an ambulance through, the magistrate said to him "you clearly went through a red light" have some points

[Jasandjules]

Dave Hedgehog said:

an associate at work got done for going through a red light a few years back, the CCTV footage showed he was letting an ambulance through, the magistrate said to him "you clearly went through a red light" have some points

Yes it is still unlawful.

I wrote to my MP about this who actually wrote back and said he thought you could go through red lights to let an ambulance through and was quite shocked that you would get prosecuted for it.

As above, there needs to be a change in legislation - write to your MPs and demand it.

[rewc]

Steve vRS said:

Interesting this as there were paramedics on who, and I may not be quoting them correctly, were saying that poor driving is putting patients at risk. Reference was made to people not pulling out of the way of ambulances into bus lanes or through red lights.
Steve

How can it be bad driving when drivers are obeying the law and following Police advise?
The Met say;
"The Highway Code advises as follows if you see an emergency vehicle;

Emergency vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights, headlights or sirens. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of the emergency vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but do not endanger other road users.
We would further add;

We do NOT expect you to risk damage to your tyres, wheels or steering by bumping up kerbs to make way for us.
We do not expect you to put yourself in danger by crossing red traffic lights to make way for us.
We do not expect you to risk road camera fines by, for example, moving in to bus lanes during hours of operation to make way for us.
We would however, appreciate your co-operation by looking well ahead and choosing sensible places to pull over."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Dr...

Edited by rewc on Tuesday 3rd June 08:52

[Snowboy]

Chipmunk1 said:

There is a very long thread about it here somewhere, the jist of it, you will get fined and or points even if you are aiding an emergency vehicle

The thread in question had a lot of stories of people who were totally excused any punishment for breaking road rules for getting out the way of a blue light.

The thread never actually reached a consensus.

Just on group of people who would get out the way.
And one group who wouldn't move.

[Rovinghawk]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:

It should be a statutory defence to using a bus lane or passing through a red light that you were aiding an emergency vehicle in order to do so.

Should be but isn't.

I have huge respect for paramedics & will assist them where possible, but not where the state will punish me for doing so. As someone else said, it's their responsibility to get past, not mine to make it possible.

[rewc]

Snowboy said:

Chipmunk1 said:

There is a very long thread about it here somewhere, the jist of it, you will get fined and or points even if you are aiding an emergency vehicle

The thread in question had a lot of stories of people who were totally excused any punishment for breaking road rules for getting out the way of a blue light.

The thread never actually reached a consensus.

Just on group of people who would get out the way.
And one group who wouldn't move.

But what does the law say? The Police say "Remember: Emergency vehicle drivers are specially trained and have exemptions to the law that you don't have, so you must not go through red lights or speed to allow them to pass."
perhaps it is the paramedics in the original post who need educating?

Edited by rewc on Tuesday 3rd June 09:11

[Snowboy]

rewc said:

But what does the law say?

Iirc, it depends on which bit if law one reads and how one interprets it.

It was a bit if a game of top trumps between "you must move" vs "you must not cross a red light".
It became a bit if a chicken and egg situation.

[Dave Hedgehog]

helpful vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btRHvQEIkcU

[BigBob]

I see no point in moving into a bus lane to allow them to pass as a general rule (there will be certain circumstance where it is needed) - if the bus lane is clear, they have the 'exemption' so they can use the bus lane to pass.

BB

[rewc]

Snowboy said:

Iirc, it depends on which bit if law one reads and how one interprets it.

It was a bit if a game of top trumps between "you must move" vs "you must not cross a red light".
It became a bit if a chicken and egg situation.

Can you point to the law which says "you must move"?

[Snowboy]

rewc said:

Can you point to the law which says "you must move"?

No I can't.
I was just paraphrasing the previous thread.
Sorry.

[rscott]

Very clear here - http://www.bluelightaware.org.uk/?p=239

website said:

On the (hopefully) rare occasions that a blue light vehicle, in ’emergency mode’, is sitting behind another vehicle at a red traffic light, it’s important to appreciate that it would be both very dangerous and illegal for the other vehicle to move across the solid white line. The exception to this is that a uniformed police officer can direct a motorist through a red traffic signal. This sometimes happens if a police motorcyclist is part of a ‘special escort’ team and needs to clear and secure a junction, thus allowing a security convoy to pass through the junction.

Report of someone who was prosecuted for going through a red light to let an ambulance past. He got 3 points and fine. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2551...

[Snowboy]

rscott said:

Report of someone who was prosecuted for going through a red light to let an ambulance past. He got 3 points and fine. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2551...

That's a story from 2005.
I'd like to think that things are a bit more sensible these days.
I know that someone on this forum had a first hand recent story where he had a ticket, sent a letter explaining things and the ticket was cancelled.

I will always move out the way if it's safe to do so.

I risk three points pretty much every day by speeding.
I'll gladly risk three points for doing something morally right

[rscott]

Another couple here from 2009 - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Dr... .

2013 - bus lane fine when letting ambulance past - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=8471... .

It's not worth the hassle - just drive predictably and let the emergency vehicle navigate around you.