Personal injury insurance claim/fraud.
Discussion
My girlfriend was involved in an accident in a supermarket car park about 3 years ago. A car reversing out of a car parking space hit her wheel arch whilst she was waiting for traffic in front of her to move (despite gf sounding horn). The shunt did no visible damage to the other party's rear bumper but put a 1 inch by 6 inch shallow dent my gf's rear wheel arch. The other party said it was their fault (which it obviously was) but soon changed their mind. My gf had 2 witnesses in the car but apparently they don't count and for some reason the insurance companies came to the conclusion that it was 50/50. I was pretty cross at the time but it didn't seem like our insurance company were bothered enough to take it further.
Today my gf received a voicemail requesting that she contact our, now previous, insurance company with regards to a personal injury claim made against them by the other party following the accident. Now this has made me fuming. There is no way that any injuries were caused by a shunt at less than 5mph. As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
Today my gf received a voicemail requesting that she contact our, now previous, insurance company with regards to a personal injury claim made against them by the other party following the accident. Now this has made me fuming. There is no way that any injuries were caused by a shunt at less than 5mph. As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
.Lets just dispell that it's your insurer thats "not interested".
The witness'es whilst "assisting the court", are known to you and little weight will be added to their evidence - it's a simple low value civil matter, not a criminal trial requiring testimony to your character.
So it is in lieu of any other evidence - one persons word against the other and in a civil matter, unless one of you comes over really badly, a court is not going to favour one over the other - usual outcome = split liability.
Your insurer doesn't want to dispute it, as a fast track non moj matter going to court, where it will probably end up 50/50, is upwards of £15k in legal costs for both sides, (and they end up paying all costs in full, regardless of the split. IF they can make a cheeky pre medical offer to settle for say £1k, and £600 costs, the claim costs 1/10 of what it would, if it allowed you to "have your say" just because you were grumpy that you wouldnt just be "believed" by the court.
Besides, in these troubled times, Courts dont get fully funded by local government - their income depends on solicitors using them, ie litigating. The third party solicitors, almost certainly based in the NW, will be gagging to go to court - probably in Birkenhead or Liverpool where 90% personal injury disputed claims are generally heard from. And the judges are, er, lets just say VERY heavilly claimant biased (ie their local solicitors who send them tens of thousands of pounds a month, keeping the court staff in work) - they HATE insurers at Liverpool and Birkenhead. As a hint, other courts, less helpful to claimants,have closed up there due to budget cuts. If you ask anyone in personal injury (defendant) about them, they'll all tell you the insurers actively fear those courts as they are so corrup..woops, er, pro claimant.
Its always NW England solicitors indulging in all sort of court rule abuses, but they get away with it time and time again. And besides, the third party has probably been pestered something rotten with cold calling by these firms, who buy data from hire car companies and other sources, pass them to their own "referral" firm to avoid "referral fee" legislation, who then arrange a medical examination by a medical reporting agency they also "own". Wonder how inependent those expert witnesses are?
Basically personal injury solicitors are the worst,bottom feeding scum, prepared to instruct experts on what to put in a report, how to coach a claimant to lie, knowing that the court is so deeply in their pocket that effectively it doesnt matter.
I am seeing such an upturn in work like your claim, its disheartening. I am actually sending out claims investigators to ask claimants if they were genuinely injured and know a claim is being made, as often, they are "negotiating" a claim - obtaining an offer, and then writing to people to say "we have £1k for you, just send back the paperwork we send you". Its odd how many of our low non medical exam settlements go nowhere, because the solicitors never even had proper instructions to act. I've had 2 the last fortnight where claimants told my insurer two years ago they wern't injured, on a recording, on the phone to us, but now magically are. One old dear told our investigator this week that she had no idea who this firm from Macclesfield were, or how they got her details but she had about 9 cold calls about an RTA 2 years previously and just agreed to make the claim to make the calls stop.
Sorry, but basically, the law is broken, PI firms are generally dishonest and you all lose out by accepting their cold calls offering you cold hard cash.
The witness'es whilst "assisting the court", are known to you and little weight will be added to their evidence - it's a simple low value civil matter, not a criminal trial requiring testimony to your character.
So it is in lieu of any other evidence - one persons word against the other and in a civil matter, unless one of you comes over really badly, a court is not going to favour one over the other - usual outcome = split liability.
Your insurer doesn't want to dispute it, as a fast track non moj matter going to court, where it will probably end up 50/50, is upwards of £15k in legal costs for both sides, (and they end up paying all costs in full, regardless of the split. IF they can make a cheeky pre medical offer to settle for say £1k, and £600 costs, the claim costs 1/10 of what it would, if it allowed you to "have your say" just because you were grumpy that you wouldnt just be "believed" by the court.
Besides, in these troubled times, Courts dont get fully funded by local government - their income depends on solicitors using them, ie litigating. The third party solicitors, almost certainly based in the NW, will be gagging to go to court - probably in Birkenhead or Liverpool where 90% personal injury disputed claims are generally heard from. And the judges are, er, lets just say VERY heavilly claimant biased (ie their local solicitors who send them tens of thousands of pounds a month, keeping the court staff in work) - they HATE insurers at Liverpool and Birkenhead. As a hint, other courts, less helpful to claimants,have closed up there due to budget cuts. If you ask anyone in personal injury (defendant) about them, they'll all tell you the insurers actively fear those courts as they are so corrup..woops, er, pro claimant.
Its always NW England solicitors indulging in all sort of court rule abuses, but they get away with it time and time again. And besides, the third party has probably been pestered something rotten with cold calling by these firms, who buy data from hire car companies and other sources, pass them to their own "referral" firm to avoid "referral fee" legislation, who then arrange a medical examination by a medical reporting agency they also "own". Wonder how inependent those expert witnesses are?
Basically personal injury solicitors are the worst,bottom feeding scum, prepared to instruct experts on what to put in a report, how to coach a claimant to lie, knowing that the court is so deeply in their pocket that effectively it doesnt matter.
I am seeing such an upturn in work like your claim, its disheartening. I am actually sending out claims investigators to ask claimants if they were genuinely injured and know a claim is being made, as often, they are "negotiating" a claim - obtaining an offer, and then writing to people to say "we have £1k for you, just send back the paperwork we send you". Its odd how many of our low non medical exam settlements go nowhere, because the solicitors never even had proper instructions to act. I've had 2 the last fortnight where claimants told my insurer two years ago they wern't injured, on a recording, on the phone to us, but now magically are. One old dear told our investigator this week that she had no idea who this firm from Macclesfield were, or how they got her details but she had about 9 cold calls about an RTA 2 years previously and just agreed to make the claim to make the calls stop.
Sorry, but basically, the law is broken, PI firms are generally dishonest and you all lose out by accepting their cold calls offering you cold hard cash.
So the OP's gf tried doing a Russ Swift in the car park, got it wrong and hit the rear bumper of the car containing those poor whiplash victims? Brings a tear to a glass eye, that sob story 
!
I am being facetious
!
Insurer will settle and pay out as it is cheaper than litigation... Unless 'something' as alluded to in earlier posts twitches their spidey senses and they have the stomach for fighting it
.
!I am being facetious
! Insurer will settle and pay out as it is cheaper than litigation... Unless 'something' as alluded to in earlier posts twitches their spidey senses and they have the stomach for fighting it
.Rollin said:
an accident in a supermarket car park about 3 years ago.
Today my gf received a voicemail
Personally, if they can't be arsed to write a letter, don't even respond. Today my gf received a voicemail
When they do write a letter, respond by letter. Do not email, or take phone calls about it.
In every letter, state, In my opinion there is someone trying to commit fraud, and if they continue to make fraudulent claims I will contact the police myself.
Rollin said:
I was pretty cross at the time but it didn't seem like our insurance company were bothered enough to take it further.
As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
A time machine?As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
Doesn't seem you/your gf were too bothered about taking matters further at the time. Now you are annoyed at the consequences.
Pit Pony said:
When they do write a letter, respond by letter. Do not email, or take phone calls about it.
In every letter, state, In my opinion there is someone trying to commit fraud, and if they continue to make fraudulent claims I will contact the police myself.
Dreadful advice. Do not respond yourself to any correspondence, but pass it on to your insurer.In every letter, state, In my opinion there is someone trying to commit fraud, and if they continue to make fraudulent claims I will contact the police myself.
pork911 said:
Rollin said:
I was pretty cross at the time but it didn't seem like our insurance company were bothered enough to take it further.
As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
A time machine?As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
Doesn't seem you/your gf were too bothered about taking matters further at the time. Now you are annoyed at the consequences.
Rollin said:
pork911 said:
Rollin said:
I was pretty cross at the time but it didn't seem like our insurance company were bothered enough to take it further.
As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
A time machine?As this is the sort of thing that increases all our insurance premiums, is there anything I can do to prevent this claim being successful?
Doesn't seem you/your gf were too bothered about taking matters further at the time. Now you are annoyed at the consequences.
you can try to get them to rescind the 50/50 agreement and anyway deny any injury but if they refuse you'll probably be faced with the same decision - personal cost
if you aren't willing to do that then i'm afraid its a (blood boiling no doubt) grumble
What personal cost could the OP have incurred that didn't breach the insurer's right of subrogation?
Bear in mind that the insurer would have been liable for any unsatisfied judgement, which could have been substantial and, in the insurer's opinion (even if mistaken) sufficiently likely to justify a payout.
Bear in mind that the insurer would have been liable for any unsatisfied judgement, which could have been substantial and, in the insurer's opinion (even if mistaken) sufficiently likely to justify a payout.
CYMR0 said:
What personal cost could the OP have incurred that didn't breach the insurer's right of subrogation?
Bear in mind that the insurer would have been liable for any unsatisfied judgement, which could have been substantial and, in the insurer's opinion (even if mistaken) sufficiently likely to justify a payout.
you've answered your own question reallyBear in mind that the insurer would have been liable for any unsatisfied judgement, which could have been substantial and, in the insurer's opinion (even if mistaken) sufficiently likely to justify a payout.
Jujuuk68 said:
Basically personal injury solicitors are the worst,bottom feeding scum, prepared to instruct experts on what to put in a report, how to coach a claimant to lie, knowing that the court is so deeply in their pocket that effectively it doesnt matter.
Every successful personal injury claim requires a medical report. Aiming the vitriol solely at P.I. solicitors is, in my mind, the wrong direction. No favourable medical report, no claim. No matter how many leaching P.I. Solicitors, CMC's or dodgy shopping centre outlets coerce people.
Shnozz said:
Jujuuk68 said:
Basically personal injury solicitors are the worst,bottom feeding scum, prepared to instruct experts on what to put in a report, how to coach a claimant to lie, knowing that the court is so deeply in their pocket that effectively it doesnt matter.
Every successful personal injury claim requires a medical report. Aiming the vitriol solely at P.I. solicitors is, in my mind, the wrong direction. No favourable medical report, no claim. No matter how many leaching P.I. Solicitors, CMC's or dodgy shopping centre outlets coerce people.
Also you have the slight problme that the whiplash diagnosis is subjective, not objective. The diagnosis is based mainly on a history given to the doctor, and not on an examination. Can you see a slightly re-entrant problem developing?
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