The house buying/ selling game
Discussion
In my 57 years of adult life, with 6 moves, apart from minor hiccups, the transactions have always been successful. No pulling out, gazzumping, fall-throughs etc etc, looks like I have been lucky, as you always hear of horror stories about what is already a stressful time.
...and I feel very sorry for those who have had bad times in this respect. More so now, as I find out that my son has hit real problems moving from his flat in Reading to a new-build house much further west. Naturally, I share his anguish, stress and depression, when the problem turns out to be caused by his buyers conveyancers, who have had months to finalise everything ready for exchange (buyer had nothing to sell) on son's flat.
At the eleventh hour, his conveyancer alerted him of the fact that the buyers conveyancer were delaying as they apparently needed to ask more questions in respect to his flats lease, which should have been done way up the line. This last delay is in a series of delays as reported by his conveyancer.
The result is that his new-build purchase is jeopardised as the Developer has lost patience and has put it back on the market 10 grand higher!!!
As it stands, my son will be out-of-pocket for his fees, and the chance of the mortgage (given that things are changing now), help-to-buy, etc etc, not to mention the preparation for moving. The original buyer apparently chose an on-line conveyancer, and on subsequent investigation, their reviews are horrific. They are well-known for total non-communication when it matters, asking for the same info, again and again, asking for stuff at the 11th hr etc.
I probably know the answer to this, but can anything be done about his losses at this stage, and can the errant conveyancer be taken to task?
They ruin lives with what seems to be very poor performance.
It is about time that these sorts of company get their just deserts and are chased out of the profession! Yet it appears that nothing can be done about them.
...and I feel very sorry for those who have had bad times in this respect. More so now, as I find out that my son has hit real problems moving from his flat in Reading to a new-build house much further west. Naturally, I share his anguish, stress and depression, when the problem turns out to be caused by his buyers conveyancers, who have had months to finalise everything ready for exchange (buyer had nothing to sell) on son's flat.
At the eleventh hour, his conveyancer alerted him of the fact that the buyers conveyancer were delaying as they apparently needed to ask more questions in respect to his flats lease, which should have been done way up the line. This last delay is in a series of delays as reported by his conveyancer.
The result is that his new-build purchase is jeopardised as the Developer has lost patience and has put it back on the market 10 grand higher!!!
As it stands, my son will be out-of-pocket for his fees, and the chance of the mortgage (given that things are changing now), help-to-buy, etc etc, not to mention the preparation for moving. The original buyer apparently chose an on-line conveyancer, and on subsequent investigation, their reviews are horrific. They are well-known for total non-communication when it matters, asking for the same info, again and again, asking for stuff at the 11th hr etc.
I probably know the answer to this, but can anything be done about his losses at this stage, and can the errant conveyancer be taken to task?
They ruin lives with what seems to be very poor performance.
It is about time that these sorts of company get their just deserts and are chased out of the profession! Yet it appears that nothing can be done about them.
Sadly I think your hunch will prove to be right, that is to say that when things get poorly handled in a property transaction it is usually the customer that looses out.
Those that choose an online conveyancer need to understand that they are dealing with the 'pile it high sell it cheap' business model and are very likely in my experience to think twice next time round, not that this helps your son I am afraid to say.
Those that choose an online conveyancer need to understand that they are dealing with the 'pile it high sell it cheap' business model and are very likely in my experience to think twice next time round, not that this helps your son I am afraid to say.
benters said:
Sadly I think your hunch will prove to be right, that is to say that when things get poorly handled in a property transaction it is usually the customer that looses out.
Those that choose an online conveyancer need to understand that they are dealing with the 'pile it high sell it cheap' business model and are very likely in my experience to think twice next time round, not that this helps your son I am afraid to say.
I know! But just because they are marketing is such a way, does not mean they should get away with bad service, does it?Those that choose an online conveyancer need to understand that they are dealing with the 'pile it high sell it cheap' business model and are very likely in my experience to think twice next time round, not that this helps your son I am afraid to say.
the gruelling thing is that the other party (my Son, in this instance) is totally unable to influence the decision on the conveyancer being used for the other party. And the combination of this and the fact that there are such unacceptably poor conveyance companies out there, means that it is is a lottery at best, and disaster at worst.
I know for a fact that the buyer is a first-timer, and not experienced in terms of conveyance services. I would guess that they would assume that all conveyancers had to work to an acceptable standard by law, so choice would purely be a financial or one of convenience.
Given that these particular conveyancing bods are well advertised, I find it gobsmacking that nothing can be done to chase such incompetent 'dream destroyers' out of the market, or at least penalise them in some way that HURTS!
Edited by 3Dee on Thursday 19th June 10:07
3Dee said:
I know! the gruelling thing is that the other party (my Son, in this instance) is totally unable to influence the decision on then conveyancer being used for the other party. And the combination of this and the fact that there are such unacceptably poor conveyance companies out there, means that it is is a lottery at best, and disaster at worst.
In an ideal world (well that's stuffed then), there should be standards that all conveyancers have to adhere to, or lose their licence at the very least.
Given that these particular conveyancing bods are well advertised, I find it gobsmacking that nothing can be done to chase such incompetent 'dream destroyers' out of the market, or at least penalise them in some way.
your sons experience will go on being repeated un fortunately as misguided customers seek the cheapest way to secure their most likely biggest purchase. . . . .its madness and you and your son have my sympathy.In an ideal world (well that's stuffed then), there should be standards that all conveyancers have to adhere to, or lose their licence at the very least.
Given that these particular conveyancing bods are well advertised, I find it gobsmacking that nothing can be done to chase such incompetent 'dream destroyers' out of the market, or at least penalise them in some way.
[quote=3Dee
This last delay is in a series of delays as reported by his conveyancer.
[/quote]
Sorry, but whilst nothing excuses poor performance, it is partly your son's fault for not managing his buyer. If your son's conveyancer has been regularly reporting delays, and the online conveyancers are known to be carp, then this goes to the question of whether his buyer is the right one.
The questions you should always ask about your buyer are:
1. have you got the finance?
2. have you employed decent advisors to push this through?
3. are you able to comply with my timetable (subject to chain etc)?
If any of those answers cause you concern, you need to consider re-marketing.
I suggest that your son chalks it down to experience and starts again - the housing market looks to be cooling so he many not lose out in the long run.
This last delay is in a series of delays as reported by his conveyancer.
[/quote]
Sorry, but whilst nothing excuses poor performance, it is partly your son's fault for not managing his buyer. If your son's conveyancer has been regularly reporting delays, and the online conveyancers are known to be carp, then this goes to the question of whether his buyer is the right one.
The questions you should always ask about your buyer are:
1. have you got the finance?
2. have you employed decent advisors to push this through?
3. are you able to comply with my timetable (subject to chain etc)?
If any of those answers cause you concern, you need to consider re-marketing.
I suggest that your son chalks it down to experience and starts again - the housing market looks to be cooling so he many not lose out in the long run.
Bluebarge said:
Sorry, but whilst nothing excuses poor performance, it is partly your son's fault for not managing his buyer. If your son's conveyancer has been regularly reporting delays, and the online conveyancers are known to be carp, then this goes to the question of whether his buyer is the right one.
Mate, I think this comment a tad unfair. All along he has been in close contact with the agent, and his conveyor, who in turn was constantly on to the buyer's conveyor (daily, and I have the calls fro him to prove it). His conveyor reported many times that the other party was dragging their feet, or unresponsive, and Son pushed as hard as he could possibly do so (without being done for harassment
!) directly. The fact of the matter is that there is no problem with the buyers mortgage, the flat in question, or anything frankly - this is purely down to conveyancing papershuffling incompetence.
No-one can predict with any certainty if the other party's conveyancer will finally pull their socks up at the 11th hour, and they often do, I know!...but not this time!
Given the tortuous and costly set of hurdles that young modern buyers have to go through to secure a new home, it would be ridiculous to pull out early.
I think the moral of this story, is that any conveyancer should, where there is another opposing solicitor or conveyancer involved, be duty-bound to investigate the efficacy of the other, and report or advise accordingly! But you know, that is NOT going to happen for many obvious reasons, sadly!
So there is no solution to this sort of thing it seems.
Edited by 3Dee on Thursday 19th June 11:49
The buyers conveyancer are acting for the buyer (and normally his lender)... If there are questions to be asked they have to ask them.
Whether they should have asked them earlier is of course is a different question and not one that can be answered with the information that we have.
I quite often see last minute requests for new lease plans as the rules have changed from what used to be acceptable many years ago. I've also seen at the last minute title deficiencies that take weeks to resolve.
My criticism is pointed to the developer who is taking advantage.... Chains take time and they know this.
Whether they should have asked them earlier is of course is a different question and not one that can be answered with the information that we have.
I quite often see last minute requests for new lease plans as the rules have changed from what used to be acceptable many years ago. I've also seen at the last minute title deficiencies that take weeks to resolve.
My criticism is pointed to the developer who is taking advantage.... Chains take time and they know this.
Unfortunately this sort of experience is far from uncommon especially dealing with a Conveyancing Factory.
Recently had an experience with these sort of morons on a leasehold apartment, who at the 11th hour (and 59th minutes) raised further enquiries. These were completely irrelevant but if they were even going to be raised, they should have done so right at the outset.
We got this resolved by phoning the purchaser and telling him his conveyancer were crap (he already knew)and explained these were irrelevant and that he needed to take a view otherwise he risked losing out as the vendor was growing very impatient.
After thinking about it over night he saw sense and exchange & completion happened the next day.
Recently had an experience with these sort of morons on a leasehold apartment, who at the 11th hour (and 59th minutes) raised further enquiries. These were completely irrelevant but if they were even going to be raised, they should have done so right at the outset.
We got this resolved by phoning the purchaser and telling him his conveyancer were crap (he already knew)and explained these were irrelevant and that he needed to take a view otherwise he risked losing out as the vendor was growing very impatient.
After thinking about it over night he saw sense and exchange & completion happened the next day.
The seller needs to get the buyer to exert some pressure on whoever he/she chose to act for him/her.
http://www.conveyancer.org.uk/regulatory_arrangeme...
Part of the problem can be that anybody can do conveyancing work. It could have been farmed out to somebody completely incompetent/unqualified.
This kind of carp is absent in Scotland. Once your sealed bid is accepted you're on the hook so you have to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you submit it.
http://www.conveyancer.org.uk/regulatory_arrangeme...
Part of the problem can be that anybody can do conveyancing work. It could have been farmed out to somebody completely incompetent/unqualified.
This kind of carp is absent in Scotland. Once your sealed bid is accepted you're on the hook so you have to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you submit it.
3Dee said:
I think the moral of this story, is that any conveyancer should, where there is another opposing solicitor or conveyancer involved, be duty-bound to investigate the efficacy of the other, and report or advise accordingly!
And from what you say - he has been, so the fault here lies with the Buyer for not choosing the right advisors and the Buyer, the Agent and your son for not keeping the pressure on, or ditching the buyer when he doesn't perform. I'm sure your conveyancer could have given an opinion of the other side's advisor if asked, and he certainly communicated his opinion during the course of the transaction, so I can't see that he can have done any more.Edited by 3Dee on Thursday 19th June 11:49
Whether you think its fair or not, it's the parties to the transaction, and the agents, who are responsible for ensuring it keeps to timetable.
The moral of the story is actually "pay cheap, pay twice".
Not an unusual occurrence and as normal, down to crappy conveyancing. Most of the Conveyancers I have had the misfortune to deal with have been poorly qualified, not very bright and, as usual with the legal and quasi legal profession, had chargeable time at the top of their priorities.
Those who quote a fixed fee seem to have no more incentive to complete than those who don't because they get their fee regardless of whether or not they do a decent job, as was shown in another thread.
Those who quote a fixed fee seem to have no more incentive to complete than those who don't because they get their fee regardless of whether or not they do a decent job, as was shown in another thread.
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