Points for overhanging load in van... What is the law?

[Timbuk2]

I foolishly agreed to help my friend transport some long bits of wood in my van, and in return ended up getting pulled over and reported for a dangerous load (unfortunate as it was only a mile trip!).

The officers measured the load and it was overhanging by 1.6 metres and I had some luminous straps attached to the end. It was very well secured and I don't think "Danger of injury due to manner of load carried" was an appropriate offence but the law is the law...

I am accepting the points as I think I was in the wrong, but for future reference I wondered if anyone knew the actual law on overhanging loads? Is it up to 1 metre only?

I have scoured the net and can't find any info apart from for HGVs, which I have copied and pasted below.

Rear Projecting Load

Not Exceeding 1.0 M (No Action)

Exceedind 1.0M (Make load clearly visible)

Exceeding 2.0M (End Marker Boards)

Exceeding 3.05M (End Marker boards, Side Marker boards Carry Attendant 2 days notice to police)


I will be very careful to comply with the law in future as I don't want any more points.

Thanks

[SS2.]

Timbuk2 said:

...I don't think "Danger of injury due to manner of load carried" was an appropriate offence but the law is the law.

Road Traffic Act 1988 said:

40A. Using vehicle in dangerous condition etc.

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—

(a) the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or

(b) the purpose for which it is used, or

(c) the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or

(d) the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,

is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.

[Timbuk2]

Thanks for the clarification but that was not my question.

[SS2.]

Timbuk2 said:

Thanks for the clarification but that was not my question.

According to the thread title, that's exactly what it is.

If you're looking for the absolute distance when an overhanging load becomes dangerous (in the eyes of the law), there isn't one.

[Timbuk2]

So it's just up to the officer dealing with you? That doesn't seem a particularly fair way of doing things!

[trashbat]

You want Construction and Use, not the RTA.

Copied from elsewhere rather than the real thing:

Google said:

Regulation 11 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 refers to the permitted overhang on certain classes of vehicles

Heavy motor car and motor car - the maximum overhang is 60 percent of the distance between the transverse plane which passes through the centre or centres of the foremost wheel or wheels and the transverse plane which passes through the foremost point from which the overhang is to be measured.

[SS2.]

Timbuk2 said:

So it's just up to the officer dealing with you? That doesn't seem a particularly fair way of doing things!

The offence originates in the Construction & Use regulations:

RV C and U Regs 1986 said:

Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc

100. (1) A motor vehicle, every trailer drawn thereby and all parts and accessories of such vehicle and trailer shall at all times be in such condition, and the number of passengers carried by such vehicle or trailer, the manner in which any passengers are carried in or on such vehicle or trailer, and the weight, distribution, packing and adjustment of the load of such vehicle or trailer shall at all times be such, that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road.

Provided that the provisions of this regulation with regard to the number of passengers carried shall not apply to a vehicle to which the Public Service Vehicles (Carrying Capacity) Regulations 1984 apply.

(2) The load carried by a motor vehicle or trailer shall at all times be so secured, if necessary by physical restraint other than its own weight, and be in such a position, that neither danger nor nuisance is likely to be caused to any person or property by reason of the load or any part thereof falling or being blown from the vehicle or by reason of any other movement of the load or any part thereof in relation to the vehicle.

(3) No motor vehicle or trailer shall be used for any purpose for which it is so unsuitable as to cause or be likely to cause danger or nuisance to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road.

The officer in question clearly considered that danger or nuisance was likely to be caused by the positioning of the load.

If you disagree with his interpretation, you always have the option to contest it at court.

[SS2.]

trashbat said:

You want Construction and Use, not the RTA.

The relevant section is here.

Worth noting that Reg. 100 does allow for prosecution, even if the overhang complies with the limits defined in Reg. 11.

[Timbuk2]

Thanks for the replies.

The officer in question actually told me that up to 1 metre of overhang was allowed but going by the Construction and Use Regulations it would be a lot less...

A Transit's rear overhang from centre of the wheels to the back bumper is only about two to three feet at most and 60% of that is much less than a metre.

Either way I was in the wrong so no point trying to contest it.

Will be more careful in future. Thanks.

[Red Devil]

SS2. said:

Timbuk2 said:

So it's just up to the officer dealing with you? That doesn't seem a particularly fair way of doing things!

The offence originates in the Construction & Use regulations:

RV C and U Regs 1986 said:

Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc

100. (1) A motor vehicle, every trailer drawn thereby and all parts and accessories of such vehicle and trailer shall at all times be in such condition, and the number of passengers carried by such vehicle or trailer, the manner in which any passengers are carried in or on such vehicle or trailer, and the weight, distribution, packing and adjustment of the load of such vehicle or trailer shall at all times be such, that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road.

Provided that the provisions of this regulation with regard to the number of passengers carried shall not apply to a vehicle to which the Public Service Vehicles (Carrying Capacity) Regulations 1984 apply.

(2) The load carried by a motor vehicle or trailer shall at all times be so secured, if necessary by physical restraint other than its own weight, and be in such a position, that neither danger nor nuisance is likely to be caused to any person or property by reason of the load or any part thereof falling or being blown from the vehicle or by reason of any other movement of the load or any part thereof in relation to the vehicle.

(3) No motor vehicle or trailer shall be used for any purpose for which it is so unsuitable as to cause or be likely to cause danger or nuisance to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road.

The officer in question clearly considered that danger or nuisance was likely to be caused by the positioning of the load.

If you disagree with his interpretation, you always have the option to contest it at court.

As I understand the OP the specific issue here is the overhang (otherwise why would the officer bother to measure it?) rather than weight, distribution, or the manner in which it is secured.

Another poster has already mentioned C&U Regulation 11. So if the overhang is within that permitted by it, surely the OP has a defence?

[Timbuk2]

Thanks but I think it would definitely not be permitted by that rule. The rear axel to the back bumper is about 2-3 feet so the permitted overhang would only be 60% of that.

[Super Slo Mo]

I always understood that the construction and use element of the rule referred to the physical body, to all intents and purposes meaning that the rear overhang of the vehicle body should be no more than 60% of the wheelbase.
The size of the load is dealt with in another area of the law I thought.
The concern is surely about whether it's secure and visibly marked.
Admittedly it's been a while since I had to deal with this sort of thing, and can't easily get hold of the rules to check until later.

[Timbuk2]

Just to close the matter...

I received a penalty notice in the post saying I had to accept 3 points and a £100 fine or request a court hearing which I did (prepared to go armed with THIS LINK).

I received another letter in reply saying the case had been reviewed by the evidence officer and they had reduced the penalty to a £50 fine, no points and the charge was now "Rear projection between 1&2 metres not clearly visible contrary to regulation 82(7)...."

I paid that as I accept it may not have been clearly marked.

Happy not to get points and I hope this may help someone else in my position

[InitialDave]

Am I just being thick? Doesn't

Timbuk2 said:

it was overhanging by 1.6 metres and I had some luminous straps attached to the end.

Fit in with

Timbuk2 said:

Exceedind 1.0M (Make load clearly visible)

?

He had a load projecting more than 1m but less than 2m. The law says you must make it visible. He says he had luminous straps attached to it.

What am I misunderstanding?

Edit: No, wait, I get it now. Yes, I was being thick.

Edited by InitialDave on Friday 1st August 14:40

[Timbuk2]

Yes, I had some luminous straps attached to it but they were not right on the end so the 1-2M load was technically "Not clearly marked"

Anyway, a pleasing result and I now know the rules!

[hopeydaze]

I transport a rowing boat regularly on top of my short wheel base Land Rover. I carry a copy of guidelines published by British Rowing on their website. It states that a boat may extend to 3.05M from the very back of the vehicle, so long as it has an end marker clearly visible to other users. Presumably the same rule applies to other things carried on vehicles.

http://www.britishrowing.org/upload/files/RowSafe/...

When I measure my boat it seems the regulation was written by a rower as it means single sculls fit almost exactly on top of a car.

If the Police consistently enforced a shorter rear overhang it would stop racing in this country almost overnight!

[Fatboy]

hopeydaze said:

I transport a rowing boat regularly on top of my short wheel base Land Rover. I carry a copy of guidelines published by British Rowing on their website. It states that a boat may extend to 3.05M from the very back of the vehicle, so long as it has an end marker clearly visible to other users. Presumably the same rule applies to other things carried on vehicles.

http://www.britishrowing.org/upload/files/RowSafe/...

When I measure my boat it seems the regulation was written by a rower as it means single sculls fit almost exactly on top of a car.

If the Police consistently enforced a shorter rear overhang it would stop racing in this country almost overnight!

Either that or boost trailer sales

[Tony V8]

I think its more about marking the overhang, than the overhang itself. As long as the load is secure and properly marked, wrapping a luminous jacket, tape or straps around it is not the same as the red and white triangular end and side markers designed and accepted for the purpose.

[CoolHands]

Should've told them to catch some real crims. The copper should've 'educated' you at the roadside and made you make it visible instead of trying to go for an easy 3-pointer.