Vacated Commercial Space-legal principle?

[burwoodman]

Wondering if a legal bod can point to the precise legal principle. I am almost certain i am in the clear.

The facts are, I had a commercial space which I vacated. As the property is a long distance away I told the landlord that I was happy that they use their commercial cleaners and i pay the bill. The landlord owns 100+ buildings so they are set up to deal with cleaning etc. They had the property cleaned(3rd party cleaning company not their own staff) and 3 weeks later emailed me to say the cleaners damaged a wall and i will be sent the bill. I accept that I am responsible for cleaning but they hired the cleaners and oncharged to me.

To get an idea of the type of landlord i'm dealing with, they also sent two photo's. One of a dish cloth left in the kitchen sink and a piece of string on the floor which they said must be removed.

Thanks

[TooMany2cvs]

burwoodman said:

emailed me to say the cleaners damaged a wall and i will be sent the bill.

Depends on how and why the wall was damaged.

If it was a genuine accident or even contributory muppetry by the cleaners, you're not liable.
If the cleaners couldn't remove evidence of your presence (above and beyond normal wear and tear and whatever's in your lease for dilapidations) without the wall being damaged, despite their best professional endeavours, then it's in your pocket.

[Nightmare]

hahahahaha - you were sent a photo of some string on the floor? really? you must post this.

I cannot work out how it could possibly your responsibility to pay for damage done by cleaners contracted by them - no doubt someone more knowledgeable will be along to explain how it could occur, but I cant think of a good reason personally.

[Nightmare]

TooMany2cvs said:

If the cleaners couldn't remove evidence of your presence (above and beyond normal wear and tear and whatever's in your lease for dilapidations) without the wall being damaged, despite their best professional endeavours, then it's in your pocket.

I would find that hard to accept.... "the cleaners have reported that they are unable to remove x from the wall which as a result will require repainting/replastering/whatever" - possibly fair

but cleaning to a point of actual damage.....well that isn't cleaning is it? "we got rid of that blue-tac mark finally - just necessitated stripping the plaster and taking out a couple of bricks"

[burwoodman]

The String



The cloth


What looks like a stamp sized adhesive whatsit to affix something to the wall. I will add, we did not affix anything to the walls.



I am happy for them to make dicks of themselves so when they take me to court-and they will, they will look pathetic.

Edited by burwoodman on Tuesday 8th July 12:08

[burwoodman]

It gets better though. I returned THREE keys. The landlord has their own and I agreed to allow them to market the premises to permanent tenants (I got a reduced rent on a month to month rolling). The premises are still empty.

Email from landlord that FOUR keys were given to my staff and as I havent returned 4 they are changing all the locks and charging me. I would guess £500. I've asked for proof that we received 4 keys. Nothing was signed(no receipt or inventory). Today I received an xls file (created today) saying 4 keys-no proof at all in my book.

Plus, because i failed to have the property cleaned (they agreed to use their cleaners and oncharge but they think I should have allowed them in the week before expiry of lease) and keys returned (4) they have charged another weeks rent 2.5k.

No doubt i'll get a bill for picking up the string and removing the tape on the wall.

[mph1977]

and then all the Amateur property developers on PH wonder why people who aren;t amateur property tycoons think Landlords are front-bottoms and letting agents pointy-toed brown shoes with a navy suit spivs...

[PurpleMoonlight]

The key thing is ridiculous as you could easily have made several copies had you a desire to enter at a subsequent time.

Not sure about the extra week. You certainly should have left it clean at the end of your tenancy, so if the landlord having to sort that out caused a delay in a new tenant taking occupancy then I would have some sympathy with them. If it remains vacant however the landlord has suffered no loss so I would think can't claim anything further in rent (or compensation for lost rent)

[burwoodman]

PurpleMoonlight said:

The key thing is ridiculous as you could easily have made several copies had you a desire to enter at a subsequent time.

Not sure about the extra week. You certainly should have left it clean at the end of your tenancy, so if the landlord having to sort that out caused a delay in a new tenant taking occupancy then I would have some sympathy with them. If it remains vacant however the landlord has suffered no loss so I would think can't claim anything further in rent (or compensation for lost rent)

I told them I wouldn't be cleaning (in advance) and agreed to pay a lot for them to use their chosen cleaners. They agreed. I was away due to a family funeral which they were aware of-no sympathy at all in fact badgered me constantly. The property was vacant for a year before i moved in. I paid on time and kept the place spotless.

Edited by burwoodman on Tuesday 8th July 14:40

[surveyor]

If these are amounting to a breach of repairing covenant (sounds like that's what they are building up to) ask them to prove that the breaches have caused diminution in the value of their building.