What is a fair settlement figure for this?
Discussion
I'll try and keep this brief.
When I was in the armed forces I was based abroad. When I came home I had a letter from a mobile phone company saying I had never paid my bill. I called up explaining that I didn't have an account with them... They said they would look into it and get back to me if any problems. They never got back to me. Next thing I get a letter from a debt collection company. Call them and explain. They say they will contact phone company. Get more letters.
Then I get a court claim against me. Provide evidence that I was not in country when phone was taken out. Case is withdrawn. I think it's all over.
When I checked my credit file I noticed I had a default. Called up debt company - they said contact phone company. However I raise a formal complaint with them.
I contact phone company - they admit they never looked into it properly. They said that "it looks like someone you know opened the account, this is civil fraud, we don't deal with it". I email ceo etc... Get told to go away (short version). I then get free 30 mins at solicitor and they say if default is not removed I can apply for court to remove.
I end up using MCOL to sue phone company. Debt company at this point remove default pronto.
I've not got to the point of court mediation. Got a call from a solicitor for phone company today asking how much to settle... I explain that my dodgy knowledge on subject means I think I should get £10k. However I accept that this is a lot and say that as a compromise this amount should be given to charity and I will withdraw claim. I'm told that it madness.
So what is a fair settlement given that for 4 years I had a default because of them? That they ignored OFT guidelines, that the breach DPA and that they generally were awful. They also did nothing to sort the problem, and it took a debt collection company to sort this. I've never had debts or owed money, my credit file is now perfect as it should be.
(Note - this is the short version, the bigger story is more boring and more damning of phone co) I can prove in their defence that they are lying and also that they are making up and fabricating the law. However I won't bore you with it all...).
When I was in the armed forces I was based abroad. When I came home I had a letter from a mobile phone company saying I had never paid my bill. I called up explaining that I didn't have an account with them... They said they would look into it and get back to me if any problems. They never got back to me. Next thing I get a letter from a debt collection company. Call them and explain. They say they will contact phone company. Get more letters.
Then I get a court claim against me. Provide evidence that I was not in country when phone was taken out. Case is withdrawn. I think it's all over.
When I checked my credit file I noticed I had a default. Called up debt company - they said contact phone company. However I raise a formal complaint with them.
I contact phone company - they admit they never looked into it properly. They said that "it looks like someone you know opened the account, this is civil fraud, we don't deal with it". I email ceo etc... Get told to go away (short version). I then get free 30 mins at solicitor and they say if default is not removed I can apply for court to remove.
I end up using MCOL to sue phone company. Debt company at this point remove default pronto.
I've not got to the point of court mediation. Got a call from a solicitor for phone company today asking how much to settle... I explain that my dodgy knowledge on subject means I think I should get £10k. However I accept that this is a lot and say that as a compromise this amount should be given to charity and I will withdraw claim. I'm told that it madness.
So what is a fair settlement given that for 4 years I had a default because of them? That they ignored OFT guidelines, that the breach DPA and that they generally were awful. They also did nothing to sort the problem, and it took a debt collection company to sort this. I've never had debts or owed money, my credit file is now perfect as it should be.
(Note - this is the short version, the bigger story is more boring and more damning of phone co) I can prove in their defence that they are lying and also that they are making up and fabricating the law. However I won't bore you with it all...).
TheEnd said:
Compensation has to be compensation for something.
4 years of damage to my credit file. Is that not worthy of compensation? The supreme court seemed to think so with Durkin. They clearly know they are in the wrong or would not be asking me to settle.
As an aside I can prove some damage as I was refused a credit card (why I looked at credit file) when I got default removed I applied again and got it.
Overall I never wanted to get to this point - I just wanted them to sort it. If they default had been removed before the claim was issued I would have forgotten all about it.
http://www.supremecourt.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC...
General damages for injury to credit. Andrew Smith QC seems to think that my claim is valid and inline with this. Award was for £8k but given inflation around £10k is now what I see as the same.
I'm no lawyer - I'm just taking advice from some that are.
I don't think I'm due £10k - which is why I have said I'll give it to charity. However I strongly feel that companies should not be allowed to treat people in this manner.
"40. I would allow the appeal and declare that Mr Durkin was entitled to
rescind and validly rescinded the credit agreement by giving notice to HFC in about
February 1999. Damages resulting from HFC’s breach of its duty of care are
confined to injury to Mr Durkin’s credit in the sum of £8,000. I would give the
parties an opportunity to agree the date from which interest should run and the rate
or rates of interest to be applied. "
So we are talking breach of duty of care (they failed to follow OFT guidelines, and they failed to deal with it properly). General damages were awarded. By the supreme court, that as far as I am aware is binding on the county court.
General damages for injury to credit. Andrew Smith QC seems to think that my claim is valid and inline with this. Award was for £8k but given inflation around £10k is now what I see as the same.
I'm no lawyer - I'm just taking advice from some that are.
I don't think I'm due £10k - which is why I have said I'll give it to charity. However I strongly feel that companies should not be allowed to treat people in this manner.
"40. I would allow the appeal and declare that Mr Durkin was entitled to
rescind and validly rescinded the credit agreement by giving notice to HFC in about
February 1999. Damages resulting from HFC’s breach of its duty of care are
confined to injury to Mr Durkin’s credit in the sum of £8,000. I would give the
parties an opportunity to agree the date from which interest should run and the rate
or rates of interest to be applied. "
So we are talking breach of duty of care (they failed to follow OFT guidelines, and they failed to deal with it properly). General damages were awarded. By the supreme court, that as far as I am aware is binding on the county court.
Edited by lookingforajob on Thursday 10th July 05:26
lookingforajob said:
I've not got to the point of court mediation. Got a call from a solicitor for phone company today asking how much to settle... I explain that my dodgy knowledge on subject means I think I should get £10k. However I accept that this is a lot and say that as a compromise this amount should be given to charity and I will withdraw claim. I'm told that it madness.
So what is a fair settlement given that for 4 years I had a default because of them? That they ignored OFT guidelines, that the breach DPA and that they generally were awful. They also did nothing to sort the problem, and it took a debt collection company to sort this. I've never had debts or owed money, my credit file is now perfect as it should be.
That IS madness.So what is a fair settlement given that for 4 years I had a default because of them? That they ignored OFT guidelines, that the breach DPA and that they generally were awful. They also did nothing to sort the problem, and it took a debt collection company to sort this. I've never had debts or owed money, my credit file is now perfect as it should be.
That guy was awarded £8000 - I think his claim was in high five or six figures as he spent ten years paying additional mortgage rates etc. £8000 was the amount directly demonstrates as loss.
The guy had to wait ten years and get this to the Supreme Court to do this.
You are entitled to your losses. "I've never had debts". You have no losses!
I speak as someone you has successfully won a claim against a high street back who refused to remove a default registered against me that was never sent to me, nor had they the proof it even existed.
From memory, they paid my court fees, and offered me £50.
If you really wanted to take the piss here you could ask them for a couple of hundred quid, but you'd only be getting that by the leverage that otherwise they'd have to spend money fighting you in court to ensure you ended up with nothing apart from your court fees.
I repeat, asking them for £10,000 is absolute madness. They are not going to give that to you, or anyone.
@OP
Well done for using the courts. These useless companies know 99% of people wont do so so they just do as they please. once you get the courts involved they suddenly sit up.
I was recently a victim of identity fraud and had to contact quite a few companies to get my credit file cleaned. one particular company kept giving excuses why it couldn't remove a fraudulent search. Got the Financial Ombudsman involved and bingo, company footprint on my file is gone.
A credit bureau reseller generated a credit report for the criminals which they were then able to use to obtain several loans in my name. I wrote to this reseller twice asking for what due diligence they did on the criminal's company before generating a credit report for them and they never bothered to reply. My solicitor sends a letter giving 28 days notice for the commencement of legal proceedings and bingo, I get a letter from their director.
I have no idea how much compensation you are due but please do not be discouraged from using the courts, if you don't use an expensive solicitor, then you wouldn't be spending that much to pursue the case anyway. I dont think your losses have to be financial only.
Well done for using the courts. These useless companies know 99% of people wont do so so they just do as they please. once you get the courts involved they suddenly sit up.
I was recently a victim of identity fraud and had to contact quite a few companies to get my credit file cleaned. one particular company kept giving excuses why it couldn't remove a fraudulent search. Got the Financial Ombudsman involved and bingo, company footprint on my file is gone.
A credit bureau reseller generated a credit report for the criminals which they were then able to use to obtain several loans in my name. I wrote to this reseller twice asking for what due diligence they did on the criminal's company before generating a credit report for them and they never bothered to reply. My solicitor sends a letter giving 28 days notice for the commencement of legal proceedings and bingo, I get a letter from their director.
I have no idea how much compensation you are due but please do not be discouraged from using the courts, if you don't use an expensive solicitor, then you wouldn't be spending that much to pursue the case anyway. I dont think your losses have to be financial only.
JustinP1 said:
That IS madness.
That guy was awarded £8000 - I think his claim was in high five or six figures as he spent ten years paying additional mortgage rates etc. £8000 was the amount directly demonstrates as loss.
The guy had to wait ten years and get this to the Supreme Court to do this.
You are entitled to your losses. "I've never had debts". You have no losses!
I speak as someone you has successfully won a claim against a high street back who refused to remove a default registered against me that was never sent to me, nor had they the proof it even existed.
From memory, they paid my court fees, and offered me £50.
If you really wanted to take the piss here you could ask them for a couple of hundred quid, but you'd only be getting that by the leverage that otherwise they'd have to spend money fighting you in court to ensure you ended up with nothing apart from your court fees.
I repeat, asking them for £10,000 is absolute madness. They are not going to give that to you, or anyone.
Aside from the madness of the suppliers' intransigence, what kind of noddy agrees to buy a £1500 laptop and signs a credit agreement if the retailer won't complete the simple task of opening the box to confirm it has a fecking modem in it?That guy was awarded £8000 - I think his claim was in high five or six figures as he spent ten years paying additional mortgage rates etc. £8000 was the amount directly demonstrates as loss.
The guy had to wait ten years and get this to the Supreme Court to do this.
You are entitled to your losses. "I've never had debts". You have no losses!
I speak as someone you has successfully won a claim against a high street back who refused to remove a default registered against me that was never sent to me, nor had they the proof it even existed.
From memory, they paid my court fees, and offered me £50.
If you really wanted to take the piss here you could ask them for a couple of hundred quid, but you'd only be getting that by the leverage that otherwise they'd have to spend money fighting you in court to ensure you ended up with nothing apart from your court fees.
I repeat, asking them for £10,000 is absolute madness. They are not going to give that to you, or anyone.
OP, you might want to use the FO guidance to find a settlement figure.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
Zeeky said:
OP, you might want to use the FO guidance to find a settlement figure.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
That's a useful counterpoint for 'fairness' if the OP wanted to go to the FO.http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
In that:
"The business's mistakes led to a county court judgment being incorrectly registered against the consumer – which resulted in a mortgage application being rejected. This caused the consumer considerable embarrassment, upset and inconvenience."
That's the yardstick for compo over £500.
I'd suggest the OP's situation is nowhere near that league as apart from a bit of hassle, he's not suffered damage.
If the OP was unable to get any loans in the period that his credit was marked as bad, or was only able to get loans at a rate significantly worse than the market average that would have been available to him(had his credit been good), then the difference in interest that he's paid between the two is a demonstrable loss.
Other than that, I don't see a loss.
Other than that, I don't see a loss.
JustinP1 said:
That's a useful counterpoint for 'fairness' if the OP wanted to go to the FO.
In that:
"The business's mistakes led to a county court judgment being incorrectly registered against the consumer – which resulted in a mortgage application being rejected. This caused the consumer considerable embarrassment, upset and inconvenience."
That's the yardstick for compo over £500.
I'd suggest the OP's situation is nowhere near that league as apart from a bit of hassle, he's not suffered damage.
Umm - I wouldn't say the FOS are an authority here. 1. Phone companies are not regulated by them, 2. There is a precedent in court which will override that. In that:
"The business's mistakes led to a county court judgment being incorrectly registered against the consumer – which resulted in a mortgage application being rejected. This caused the consumer considerable embarrassment, upset and inconvenience."
That's the yardstick for compo over £500.
I'd suggest the OP's situation is nowhere near that league as apart from a bit of hassle, he's not suffered damage.
I'm not saying I am deserving of money, but to use an ombudsman not connected to the industry to claim authority here seems odd.
mikeveal said:
If the OP was unable to get any loans in the period that his credit was marked as bad, or was only able to get loans at a rate significantly worse than the market average that would have been available to him(had his credit been good), then the difference in interest that he's paid between the two is a demonstrable loss.
Other than that, I don't see a loss.
That is the conventional way of looking at this sort of thing. However I disagree with it for a few reasons:Other than that, I don't see a loss.
1) It allows companies/organisations to act in a manner which is harmful to individuals with little or no recourse.
2) It doesn't account for stress, upset and the general discrimination which is faced by someone who is branded a debtor unfairly.
3) The concept of having to "prove loss", is only important when big companies have wronged someone. Look at the Cambridge test case against parking eye... No loss but it was considered commercially justified to impose a penalty, I'd say there is a moral justification to impose a penalty.
I may be completely wrong. However given they do want to settle indicates to me they are not very confident in getting a favourable result in court!
lookingforajob said:
I may be completely wrong. However given they do want to settle indicates to me they are not very confident in getting a favourable result in court!
As I said above, tot up the time you've spent dealing with this issue. Multiply that by your hourly rate (or the court approved rate if appropriate). You then have this as a timed loss. Add in something for stress. Add in whatever other costs you have incurred dealing with the matter, such as telephone calls/stamps and so on. lookingforajob said:
I may be completely wrong. However given they do want to settle indicates to me they are not very confident in getting a favourable result in court!
Yes. You are.They want to settle because they want to give you a little something to close the file quickly, and not mess around.
The precedent you talk of - how does this relate to your situation?
From memory, the claimant in the case you've reference sued for something like £250,000. It went through the courts and at appeal he was awarded £100,000. Then, it went up to the supreme court and that award was changed to £8000.
So, use a bit of logic here. This guy proved to a court that he suffered £100,000 of losses and the higher court rescinded that and he ended up with £8000.
By your admission you have no debts, and you've not suggested that you've suffered any financial loss. Yet, you value your claim at £10,000...?
Clearly, you are going to keep this thread going until you get want you want to hear.
So, scrub the above. File another claim for £10,100 and see how that pans out instead.
lookingforajob said:
JustinP1 said:
That's a useful counterpoint for 'fairness' if the OP wanted to go to the FO.
In that:
"The business's mistakes led to a county court judgment being incorrectly registered against the consumer – which resulted in a mortgage application being rejected. This caused the consumer considerable embarrassment, upset and inconvenience."
That's the yardstick for compo over £500.
I'd suggest the OP's situation is nowhere near that league as apart from a bit of hassle, he's not suffered damage.
Umm - I wouldn't say the FOS are an authority here. 1. Phone companies are not regulated by them, 2. There is a precedent in court which will override that. In that:
"The business's mistakes led to a county court judgment being incorrectly registered against the consumer – which resulted in a mortgage application being rejected. This caused the consumer considerable embarrassment, upset and inconvenience."
That's the yardstick for compo over £500.
I'd suggest the OP's situation is nowhere near that league as apart from a bit of hassle, he's not suffered damage.
I'm not saying I am deserving of money, but to use an ombudsman not connected to the industry to claim authority here seems odd.
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