speeding fine - who was driving

[petemurphy]

soo the mrs has just received a speeding fine from April of this year. Its taken forever to get to us as we've moved house / jobs etc.

it was when we went on a day trip to canterbury and we genuinely cant be sure if i was driving or her.

is it possible to appeal etc given it was in april or is the law tight now and tough you have to name someone even if you are not totally sure who it was?

Thanks

[Durzel]

You could ask for photographs "to aid identification of the driver", but do not mention evidence or calibration or whether the cop was wearing his hat at the time, etc. Most of the time the camera office will oblige this request.

In so far as the Law goes you're compelled to identify the driver, or to show that after reasonable diligence you could not identify the driver. Saying "could've been either of us" wouldn't qualify. At the very minimum you would be expected to show that you had gone through mobile phone records, credit card receipts, etc to aid identification (e.g. someone buying petrol is likely to have been driving, etc).

Failure to unequivocally name a driver would result in you being prosecuted with a Section 172 Failure to Furnish charge - an entirely separate charge that is distinct from the original speeding charge that spawned it. Word around the camp fire is that these are notoriously difficult to defend.

What are the margins of speed involved? Would they be unusual for your other half? Is the location near to anywhere that you might have logically changed over, or had been extremely unlikely to?

[agtlaw]

petemurphy said:

soo the mrs has just received a speeding fine from April of this year. Its taken forever to get to us as we've moved house / jobs etc.

it was when we went on a day trip to canterbury and we genuinely cant be sure if i was driving or her.

is it possible to appeal etc given it was in april or is the law tight now and tough you have to name someone even if you are not totally sure who it was?

Thanks

Hamilton defence.

[surveyor]

Had something similar once. Rang them up and they were pretty confident that it was a woman driving. Dobbed the other half in!

[caziques]

IF the car is in wife's name - AND the alleged offence was early April....

AND wife names you within 28 days (ie towards end of August)

then you would get your own S172 request say early September.

Send this back naming yourself as the driver (if this is the case) towards the end of September - and the speeding will time out at six months (ie six months after April date).

Just possible a prosecution could be squeezed in, probably more likely you would get a CoFP which could be ignored (if it expired after the six months).

Asking for photos does not stop the 28 days ticking, so a phone call to see if the driver is male or female could be useful.

With draconian penalties for not unequivocally naming a driver one of you is best to cough up.
Note it is only perjury knowingly naming the wrong driver - guessing and getting it wrong is OK.

[petemurphy]

thanks all - i think it was probably me driving but not 100%. its 38 in a 30 ( but on a dual carriageway type bypass at 9.20 on a sunday morning not a small road outside a school - not that that matters to the fine etc )

will that be points? i have 3 points already and live out in a village so bit concerned i will get nearer the no licence if i have one more "mistake"

wife has no points but its a lease car in her name and think they said u couldnt lease it with over 6 points

[Durzel]

So 9:20am in the morning - unlikely to have been any driver changes before this time surely? Most likely going to be the person who actually set off in the car to begin with.

Bear in mind as has been said above that "giving your best guess" of the driver is not an offence but wilfully giving the wrong name because it's advantageous to you is. Be careful about what you admit to knowing on a public forum.

[Hackney]

petemurphy said:

thanks all - i think it was probably me driving but not 100%. its 38 in a 30 ( but on a dual carriageway type bypass at 9.20 on a sunday morning not a small road outside a school - not that that matters to the fine etc )

will that be points? i have 3 points already and live out in a village so bit concerned i will get nearer the no licence if i have one more "mistake"

wife has no points but its a lease car in her name and think they said u couldnt lease it with over 6 points

Wouldn't that qualify for speed awareness course? I think I was clockd at 39 and was just outside the threshold (4 years ago)
One more mistake will always take you nearer, but you on 6 points is 2 mistakes to a ban unless you do something really silly.
If it's a lease in her name your 6 points won't affect the lease. You may not be able to drive it, but as the car is hers she shouldn't have a problem.

[SK425]

caziques said:

With draconian penalties for not unequivocally naming a driver one of you is best to cough up.
Note it is only perjury knowingly naming the wrong driver - guessing and getting it wrong is OK.

Guessing and getting it wrong might not be perjury, but is it really OK? As in, if you've racked your brains and gone through any other information you can think of and the best conclusion you can reach is that it was probably person A but certainly could have been person B, section 172 would prefer you to guess than to say you can't be sure? I hope that's not how it works.

[7db]

"I can't be sure. It might have been me. It was most likely to be X"

Would that be enough for a prosecution of murder?

[petemurphy]

Durzel said:

So 9:20am in the morning - unlikely to have been any driver changes before this time surely? Most likely going to be the person who actually set off in the car to begin with.

Bear in mind as has been said above that "giving your best guess" of the driver is not an offence but wilfully giving the wrong name because it's advantageous to you is. Be careful about what you admit to knowing on a public forum.

we stayed in Canterbury overnight and visited friends in Whitstable sunday morning but cant remember if she drove or me and if we drove into canterbury first for breakkie etc. hell i cant remember last week! suppose i'll just have to do it its more likely i was driving although seems a bit slow for me genuinely cant remember

[Tiggsy]

I had this...I wrote


"Not sure who was driving....but I'm happy to take the points - just want to check I wont be in trouble for saying it was me when I'm only 50% sure it was....again, happy to take the points and fine - just want to be sure I am doing it correct"

They wrote and said "forget it, driver slower next time"

[petemurphy]

Tiggsy said:

I had this...I wrote


"Not sure who was driving....but I'm happy to take the points - just want to check I wont be in trouble for saying it was me when I'm only 50% sure it was....again, happy to take the points and fine - just want to be sure I am doing it correct"

They wrote and said "forget it, driver slower next time"

interesting

this is where is was apparently - fffing 30mph there....

[aw51 121565]

7db said:

"I can't be sure. It might have been me. It was most likely to be X"

Would that be enough for a prosecution of murder?

That would be enough for an MS90 endorsement, 6 points and a £500 fine for the person who sent it back (assuming they plead guilty)...

Not enough to convict for murder though, admittedly .

[Marc W]

It seems to vary, a collegue once had this and she contacted them to ask for the photo as they weren't sure who was driving. The whole thing was immediately dropped! It's definitely worth asking to see the photo.

[sherbertdip]

petemurphy said:

interesting

this is where is was apparently - fffing 30mph there....

No help to you at all, but whenever i've driven on that road I considered 5mph fast due to tailbacks from the roundabout.

[petemurphy]

sherbertdip said:

No help to you at all, but whenever i've driven on that road I considered 5mph fast due to tailbacks from the roundabout.

teach me to be up early on a sunday!

[martinbiz]

As has Been said replying with anything other than an unequivocal name will result in 6 points and a large fine. Saying I am not sure, or it may have been my wife but I'll take the hit may have got you off a few years ago, but vanishingly unlikely today.

Ignore advice from the man down the pub, this is inside the SAC threshold so if you don't mess them about you may still get one offered if the driver qualifies.

[petemurphy]

hmm wished i'd had said i dont know 30mph there ffs

[ging84]

Is it really that much of a surprise it's a 30 limit?
you must be lucky where you live, some areas these days a road like that the question would not be is it a 30, but is it a 20 zone, there would be no chance of it being a 40