Track day private land, public liability insurance ?
Discussion
Possibly have the use of a very large area of concrete, once used as a car-park now unused. Out of the way of private houses and pretty much everything including earshot of anyone who doesn't like this sort of thing.
If friends want to do their own Car Limits type of thing on private land, do we still need Public Liability Insurance ? If no-one in particular is organising it and everyone is fully aware of the possible consequences if there was an accident, would it/should it be an issue ? Obviously car insurance etc out of the window but is there anything legally stopping friends from enjoying their cars in a safe private area away from members of the public entering. It is well security-fenced off on the edge of an industrial estate with one entry point controlled by me and no "viewing points". In fact, chances are no-one will be anywhere near it on a sunday.
Dose anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or know the possible risks ? Im' not being naïve, I'm old school and genuinely think like minded friends should be able to do this but, what do you know ?
If friends want to do their own Car Limits type of thing on private land, do we still need Public Liability Insurance ? If no-one in particular is organising it and everyone is fully aware of the possible consequences if there was an accident, would it/should it be an issue ? Obviously car insurance etc out of the window but is there anything legally stopping friends from enjoying their cars in a safe private area away from members of the public entering. It is well security-fenced off on the edge of an industrial estate with one entry point controlled by me and no "viewing points". In fact, chances are no-one will be anywhere near it on a sunday.
Dose anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or know the possible risks ? Im' not being naïve, I'm old school and genuinely think like minded friends should be able to do this but, what do you know ?
Rs2oo said:
Possibly have the use of a very large area of concrete, once used as a car-park now unused. Out of the way of private houses and pretty much everything including earshot of anyone who doesn't like this sort of thing.
If friends want to do their own Car Limits type of thing on private land, do we still need Public Liability Insurance ? If no-one in particular is organising it and everyone is fully aware of the possible consequences if there was an accident, would it/should it be an issue ? Obviously car insurance etc out of the window but is there anything legally stopping friends from enjoying their cars in a safe private area away from members of the public entering. It is well security-fenced off on the edge of an industrial estate with one entry point controlled by me and no "viewing points". In fact, chances are no-one will be anywhere near it on a sunday.
Dose anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or know the possible risks ? Im' not being naïve, I'm old school and genuinely think like minded friends should be able to do this but, what do you know ?
Public Liability will be very very expensive due to Insurers being worried about picking up motor accident claims and the possible cross over with the Road Traffic ActIf friends want to do their own Car Limits type of thing on private land, do we still need Public Liability Insurance ? If no-one in particular is organising it and everyone is fully aware of the possible consequences if there was an accident, would it/should it be an issue ? Obviously car insurance etc out of the window but is there anything legally stopping friends from enjoying their cars in a safe private area away from members of the public entering. It is well security-fenced off on the edge of an industrial estate with one entry point controlled by me and no "viewing points". In fact, chances are no-one will be anywhere near it on a sunday.
Dose anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or know the possible risks ? Im' not being naïve, I'm old school and genuinely think like minded friends should be able to do this but, what do you know ?
If something happens and someone gets paralysed requiring care for the rest of their lives... who will pay for it? I would have thought the landowner who allowed the event to take place would be legally liable, and therefore should have insurance for that.
Just like if you fall down the stairs in my house, you could claim off my home insurance.
Note, IANAL, just giving my opinion based on logic.
Just like if you fall down the stairs in my house, you could claim off my home insurance.
Note, IANAL, just giving my opinion based on logic.
Rs2oo said:
If no-one in particular is organising it and everyone is fully aware of the possible consequences if there was an accident, would it/should it be an issue ?
(Non-expert opinion)Firstly somebody must be organising access if it's being carried out with permission. That person, and the land owner/occupier who gave permission are involved.
Secondly, the drivers might be well-aware of the risks, however if there was a serious incident (for example that resulted in them needed lifelong care) the relatives will probably not have the same opinion and will be looking to extract as much money as possible from whoever they can.
calibrax said:
If something happens and someone gets paralysed requiring care for the rest of their lives... who will pay for it?
Yep. It's all very well saying "But we all agreed..." That kind of handshake doesn't get very far once somebody suffers serious life-changing injuries because of somebody else's avoidable muppetry.I understand all the points raised but if we were all so scared to do this just in case, we then decide it's safer to have a game of football in the park then someone broke a leg ?
What If the ball was kicked into a child who was injured ?
So we think, let's play a parlour game, so we head to the pub and have a game of pool and an accident happened would I be liable because as the organiser I said " ok fellas, let's have a game of pool " we couldn't even have a drinking competition in case someone choked and his false teeth shot across the bar and parylised a passing pensioner.
The idea is not to be out with other drivers at the same time, it's a laid out sprint course round cones etc one car at a time. If we can't do it so be it but seems a shame because of the "what if" factor.
Does anyone know a legal way to organise this without me having to take a spare pair of undies with me in case someone does hurt themselves. Thanks.
What If the ball was kicked into a child who was injured ?
So we think, let's play a parlour game, so we head to the pub and have a game of pool and an accident happened would I be liable because as the organiser I said " ok fellas, let's have a game of pool " we couldn't even have a drinking competition in case someone choked and his false teeth shot across the bar and parylised a passing pensioner.
The idea is not to be out with other drivers at the same time, it's a laid out sprint course round cones etc one car at a time. If we can't do it so be it but seems a shame because of the "what if" factor.
Does anyone know a legal way to organise this without me having to take a spare pair of undies with me in case someone does hurt themselves. Thanks.
It must be possible.
This is approximately the same event that motor sports clubs run at venues up and down the country nearly every weekend.
If the area is fairly small then it could be used for an Autosolo, if it is larger, then it could be used for a Targa Rally.
If you have the venue, then why not offer it to a local motorsports club to run an event. They will sort out the insurance etc and you just turn up and play.
Bob
This is approximately the same event that motor sports clubs run at venues up and down the country nearly every weekend.
If the area is fairly small then it could be used for an Autosolo, if it is larger, then it could be used for a Targa Rally.
If you have the venue, then why not offer it to a local motorsports club to run an event. They will sort out the insurance etc and you just turn up and play.
Bob
fat80b said:
It must be possible.
then why not offer it to a local motorsports club to run an event. They will sort out the insurance etc and you just turn up and play.
Bob
Like the idea Bob but we just want to do our own thing with friends and people we know and trust that costs very little. If a club organises it as an official event I'm not sure they would be allowed to do it at a non approved location ? I really don't know the laws/rules !then why not offer it to a local motorsports club to run an event. They will sort out the insurance etc and you just turn up and play.
Bob
Rs2oo said:
Like the idea Bob but we just want to do our own thing with friends and people we know and trust that costs very little. If a club organises it as an official event I'm not sure they would be allowed to do it at a non approved location ? I really don't know the laws/rules !
Find out how much it is to form an MSA club, then make membership by invitation only? The local clubs to here do similar events but you have to be a club member to take part, so only allow people you like to join, and get them pay a membership fee to cover what ever MSA fees there are.TheConverted said:
So forgive my, ignorance.
what stops you, all signing a disclaimer? presumably one drawn up by a solicitor with the correct legal wording if thats possible?
Unfair Contract terms Act 1977.what stops you, all signing a disclaimer? presumably one drawn up by a solicitor with the correct legal wording if thats possible?
You cant win on this one- firstly to prevent the road traffic act applying if you are caught "racing" you have to get a race permit for specific days. We used to use an origination called the IOPD, ( http://www.iopd.org.uk/) who basically check you have third party liability cover, safety marshals and first aid , and a good risk assessment in place before they issue the permit. Getting insurance proves interesting- we used to pay about £1500 a year (10 years ago) third party for a load of us to race around private farmers land in 650 -1300 cc off road buggies with NO public access, but it was very much a case of finding a broker who would even consider it. As drivers we had no cover at, just if we hit a member of the public ....It got harder and harder to meet all the requirements, and in the end it cost less to go go-karting than pay all the various fees to use your own buggy on private land. A major fact that was the final straw was if I was seen to be negligent when I organised the events and someone got hurt, I could get sued and loose my house in the process, disclaimer or otherwise.
Aretnap said:
TheConverted said:
So forgive my, ignorance.
what stops you, all signing a disclaimer? presumably one drawn up by a solicitor with the correct legal wording if thats possible?
Unfair Contract terms Act 1977.what stops you, all signing a disclaimer? presumably one drawn up by a solicitor with the correct legal wording if thats possible?
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