Car tax cancelled due to failed DD payment - what now?
Discussion
My elderly-ish Dad is trying to renew his car tax, and failing rather spectacularly. He has got himself in a bit of a pickle, and I wonder if you can help me advise him what to do next.
He bought one of those Ford B-Max things earlier this year, and now that the tax thresholds have changed he has to pay some tax on it. I think it fell due at the end of October.
Edited to add: I now realise that the car was only zero-rated for its first year, and now he's back on the normal rate of (gasp!) £30.
He went to the online system, and was slightly perturbed that it said "Beta" on every page (as was I when I did one of my cars, but it worked fine...).
I think he intended to pay by debit card, but I suspect he got confused between "debit card" versus "direct debit". From what I can tell, he tried to enter his 16-digit debit card number into the box where it was asking for his bank account number. He implies that it would only accept 8 digits (which makes sense for a bank account number), and he says he also entered his sort code. This confirms in my mind that he went down the "direct debit" route instead of "debit card".
Despite only managing to enter half of the (wrong) number, he still chose to continue to the next page. Eventually, he got to a final page where he says it showed a completely different account number from what he had entered, and bizarrely he still continued regardless.
Anyway, he completed the process having clearly entered an invalid account number, and the web site indicated that he had completed it successfully - so he says.
Worried about it, he phoned DVLA a few days later to check whether his car was taxed, and they assured him that it was. He called them several times and was told each time that everything was fine, despite it being impossible due to the incorrect account number.
Fast forward to this Saturday just gone, and he has now received a letter from DVLA saying that the payment failed (no surprise) and his tax has been cancelled. He must not drive the car, must either tax it or SORN it, could be prosecuted... yada yada yada.
I suspect that the system probably just gives you the benefit of the doubt and marks your car as "taxed" whilst it subsequently completes the set-up process of the Direct Debit. If anything goes wrong, it retrospectively cancels the tax and spits out a letter to you. Is this roughly right?
I told him to just go back to the web site and do it again, this time being sure to choose "debit card". But he insists DVLA have told him he can no longer use the web site because of the cancellation, and that his only option is to go to a Post Office (the nearest one being about 4 miles away).
So, what should I tell him to do? He's a tight b
d and refuses to take a taxi into town, and probably too proud to ask a neighbour for a lift. Is it possible for me to go to a Post Office and tax it for him, bearing in mind that I don't have any of the documentation relating to the car or its tax? (Oh, and to complicate things, he's not sure where the V5C is...)
He's been suffering depression since Mum died a few years ago, and various other health issues as well - so I'd really like to just make the problem go away for him.
If I could go to a Post Office and say "I want to tax my Dad's car, please can I do that?" is that possible without any documentation?
He bought one of those Ford B-Max things earlier this year, and now that the tax thresholds have changed he has to pay some tax on it. I think it fell due at the end of October.
Edited to add: I now realise that the car was only zero-rated for its first year, and now he's back on the normal rate of (gasp!) £30.
He went to the online system, and was slightly perturbed that it said "Beta" on every page (as was I when I did one of my cars, but it worked fine...).
I think he intended to pay by debit card, but I suspect he got confused between "debit card" versus "direct debit". From what I can tell, he tried to enter his 16-digit debit card number into the box where it was asking for his bank account number. He implies that it would only accept 8 digits (which makes sense for a bank account number), and he says he also entered his sort code. This confirms in my mind that he went down the "direct debit" route instead of "debit card".
Despite only managing to enter half of the (wrong) number, he still chose to continue to the next page. Eventually, he got to a final page where he says it showed a completely different account number from what he had entered, and bizarrely he still continued regardless.
Anyway, he completed the process having clearly entered an invalid account number, and the web site indicated that he had completed it successfully - so he says.
Worried about it, he phoned DVLA a few days later to check whether his car was taxed, and they assured him that it was. He called them several times and was told each time that everything was fine, despite it being impossible due to the incorrect account number.
Fast forward to this Saturday just gone, and he has now received a letter from DVLA saying that the payment failed (no surprise) and his tax has been cancelled. He must not drive the car, must either tax it or SORN it, could be prosecuted... yada yada yada.
I suspect that the system probably just gives you the benefit of the doubt and marks your car as "taxed" whilst it subsequently completes the set-up process of the Direct Debit. If anything goes wrong, it retrospectively cancels the tax and spits out a letter to you. Is this roughly right?
I told him to just go back to the web site and do it again, this time being sure to choose "debit card". But he insists DVLA have told him he can no longer use the web site because of the cancellation, and that his only option is to go to a Post Office (the nearest one being about 4 miles away).
So, what should I tell him to do? He's a tight b
d and refuses to take a taxi into town, and probably too proud to ask a neighbour for a lift. Is it possible for me to go to a Post Office and tax it for him, bearing in mind that I don't have any of the documentation relating to the car or its tax? (Oh, and to complicate things, he's not sure where the V5C is...)He's been suffering depression since Mum died a few years ago, and various other health issues as well - so I'd really like to just make the problem go away for him.
If I could go to a Post Office and say "I want to tax my Dad's car, please can I do that?" is that possible without any documentation?
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 4th December 13:48
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 5th December 11:48
Could this be a novel way of showing a car is taxed for a couple of days for the purpose of just moving it to a different location?? 
Surely if you just get the reminder and MOT certificate from him, you can do it at the Post Office for him, or are you trying not to have to go to his place first to pick stuff up?
Surely if you just get the reminder and MOT certificate from him, you can do it at the Post Office for him, or are you trying not to have to go to his place first to pick stuff up?
https://www.gov.uk/car-tax-disc-without-v11-remind...
You'll need either the V11 reminder (although the number on that may not work any more), the V5C or a V62 to apply for a replacement V5C (plus the fee) if he's lost it.
You'll need either the V11 reminder (although the number on that may not work any more), the V5C or a V62 to apply for a replacement V5C (plus the fee) if he's lost it.
I've just been down to the Post Office near the office to see what they say - and the bloke said that I'd need the V5C or the reminder. I explained the cock-up and the fact that the tax has been cancelled, and the fact that the reminder dates from October, and my suspicion is that the reminder will no longer work - but I'll try it if that's all he can find.
Fortunately, MOT isn't an issue because the car is less than a year old. (And they check that electronically I think.)
It seemed to take a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time for DVLA to realise that there was a problem and send Dad the letter informing him of the cancellation. Usual DVLA efficiency I suppose.
Fortunately, MOT isn't an issue because the car is less than a year old. (And they check that electronically I think.)
It seemed to take a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time for DVLA to realise that there was a problem and send Dad the letter informing him of the cancellation. Usual DVLA efficiency I suppose.
Supplementary question:
If he really can't find the V5C and I have to go down the V62 route, am I right in assuming that he would have to sign the V62? Or could I sign it on his behalf and still register the car to him? (If the latter, then that's great - I could do everything for him right now from here and tell him to tear up the V5C if he finds it.)
Secondly, if I go down the V62 route, would I have to wait for the V5C to come back before I can tax the car, or could I apply for the V5C and get the tax immediately? (If the latter, then that's great - I could do everything for him right now from here...)
I know there's a fee (£25?) with the V62, but it's worth it just to take the hassle away from the old duffer.
If he really can't find the V5C and I have to go down the V62 route, am I right in assuming that he would have to sign the V62? Or could I sign it on his behalf and still register the car to him? (If the latter, then that's great - I could do everything for him right now from here and tell him to tear up the V5C if he finds it.)
Secondly, if I go down the V62 route, would I have to wait for the V5C to come back before I can tax the car, or could I apply for the V5C and get the tax immediately? (If the latter, then that's great - I could do everything for him right now from here...)
I know there's a fee (£25?) with the V62, but it's worth it just to take the hassle away from the old duffer.
Regarding his signature, I'd just sign it on his behalf; it's the least of your worries!
BUT
You need to know the correct registration number and full 17 digit chassis number.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
or could I apply for the V5C and get the tax immediately? (If the latter, then that's great - I could do everything for him right now from here...)
I know there's a fee (£25?) with the V62, but it's worth it just to take the hassle away from the old duffer.
Yes duplicate V62 and you can tax immediately I know there's a fee (£25?) with the V62, but it's worth it just to take the hassle away from the old duffer.
BUT
You need to know the correct registration number and full 17 digit chassis number.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
If he really can't find the V5C and I have to go down the V62 route, am I right in assuming that he would have to sign the V62? Or could I sign it on his behalf
Think back to your school days and forging notes from your parents... If your copy of their signature was good enough then, it's good enough for DVLA!solo2 said:
You need to know the correct registration number and full 17 digit chassis number.
Easy enough with the VIN visible through the windscreen on anything vaguely modern.VIN is on the inside of the bonnet around the edge somewhere. Will be easy to find - it's a really long number.
Just take a bit of time out and walk him through the process. He will need to take it to the Post Office and pay the £25 fee, plus tax. Just take the £25 hit as to learn from his mistake.
Good luck.
Link for the V62 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Just take a bit of time out and walk him through the process. He will need to take it to the Post Office and pay the £25 fee, plus tax. Just take the £25 hit as to learn from his mistake.
Good luck.
Link for the V62 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Bugger me, you lot are really making this more complicated than it is.
OP.... If you still haven't sorted it in the morning, PM me. Im doing a few taxes for Saturday and it takes 5 minutes to fill out a V62. All i need is the reg number and your Dads details. VIN number I can get from HPI. PM me with your number and happy to call you to discuss. Obviously I'll have to front the cost of the v62 and 12 months tax but if you can pay me by online instant payment or paypal, all good.
OP.... If you still haven't sorted it in the morning, PM me. Im doing a few taxes for Saturday and it takes 5 minutes to fill out a V62. All i need is the reg number and your Dads details. VIN number I can get from HPI. PM me with your number and happy to call you to discuss. Obviously I'll have to front the cost of the v62 and 12 months tax but if you can pay me by online instant payment or paypal, all good.
TVR1 said:
Bugger me, you lot are really making this more complicated than it is.
OP.... If you still haven't sorted it in the morning, PM me. Im doing a few taxes for Saturday and it takes 5 minutes to fill out a V62. All i need is the reg number and your Dads details. VIN number I can get from HPI. PM me with your number and happy to call you to discuss. Obviously I'll have to front the cost of the v62 and 12 months tax but if you can pay me by online instant payment or paypal, all good.
OP.... If you still haven't sorted it in the morning, PM me. Im doing a few taxes for Saturday and it takes 5 minutes to fill out a V62. All i need is the reg number and your Dads details. VIN number I can get from HPI. PM me with your number and happy to call you to discuss. Obviously I'll have to front the cost of the v62 and 12 months tax but if you can pay me by online instant payment or paypal, all good.
Nice offer.
Thanks chaps!
I now have the V62, the reg, and the VIN. I also have Dad's signature on the V62 having visited him last night. So I will be going to the Post Office at lunchtime.
Weirdly, the car is indeed showing up as "taxed". So I wonder if I'm still going to hit problems...
Stupidly I forgot to ask Dad to show me the letter from DVLA about the cancellation of the tax. I wonder if that's what it really says, or has he misread it...
I now have the V62, the reg, and the VIN. I also have Dad's signature on the V62 having visited him last night. So I will be going to the Post Office at lunchtime.
Weirdly, the car is indeed showing up as "taxed". So I wonder if I'm still going to hit problems...
Stupidly I forgot to ask Dad to show me the letter from DVLA about the cancellation of the tax. I wonder if that's what it really says, or has he misread it...
DVLA have explicitly told him that the tax cannot be paid online or over the phone, and that it must be done at a Post Office. I'm afraid the situation is too complex for most script-driven call centre staff to cope with. 
TVR1: You have mail! This morning I've tried typing the VIN that Dad gave me into various web sites, and it seems to be invalid. I'm kicking myself for relying on the hand-written sheet that came with the car, rather than going outside and reading it off the car itself. But it was raining. If you're able to get the VIN from the reg I'd be hugely grateful. I've searched high and low for a web site that will do this, but I guess they don't in order to avoid cloning.
I'll also try phoning Dad later on and ask him to read it off the car for me. But it can be difficult to get him to answer the phone sometimes.
TVR1: You have mail! This morning I've tried typing the VIN that Dad gave me into various web sites, and it seems to be invalid. I'm kicking myself for relying on the hand-written sheet that came with the car, rather than going outside and reading it off the car itself. But it was raining. If you're able to get the VIN from the reg I'd be hugely grateful. I've searched high and low for a web site that will do this, but I guess they don't in order to avoid cloning.
I'll also try phoning Dad later on and ask him to read it off the car for me. But it can be difficult to get him to answer the phone sometimes.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 5th December 08:48
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
DVLA have explicitly told him that the tax cannot be paid online or over the phone, and that it must be done at a Post Office. I'm afraid the situation is too complex for most script-driven call centre staff to cope with.
But YOU haven't been told that have you. Its a quick call you might be surprised, not all call centre staff are robots.Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
DVLA have explicitly told him that the tax cannot be paid online or over the phone, and that it must be done at a Post Office. I'm afraid the situation is too complex for most script-driven call centre staff to cope with.
TVR1: You have mail! This morning I've tried typing the VIN that Dad gave me into various web sites, and it seems to be invalid. I'm kicking myself for relying on the hand-written sheet that came with the car, rather than going outside and reading it off the car itself. But it was raining. If you're able to get the VIN from the reg I'd be hugely grateful. I've searched high and low for a web site that will do this, but I guess they don't in order to avoid cloning.
I'll also try phoning Dad later on and ask him to read it off the car for me. But it can be difficult to get him to answer the phone sometimes.
email sent!TVR1: You have mail! This morning I've tried typing the VIN that Dad gave me into various web sites, and it seems to be invalid. I'm kicking myself for relying on the hand-written sheet that came with the car, rather than going outside and reading it off the car itself. But it was raining. If you're able to get the VIN from the reg I'd be hugely grateful. I've searched high and low for a web site that will do this, but I guess they don't in order to avoid cloning.
I'll also try phoning Dad later on and ask him to read it off the car for me. But it can be difficult to get him to answer the phone sometimes.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 5th December 08:48
Many thanks to TVR1 for kindly doing the HPI check, which showed that the VIN was actually correct.
So I've been down to the PO and done it, scanned the receipt and sent it to Dad so that if the database goes through a period when the car is showing as untaxed then he can show the receipt to plod if necessary.
Thanks for everyone's help!
I'm hoping that they won't chase him or fine him for the missing month's tax - it should really have been taxed from 01/11/2014 but it wasn't possible for me to back-date it. Given that there was a reasonable attempt to tax the car at the end of October, and DVLA staff told him there was no problem, and we've responded reasonably quickly now that we have been told of a problem, it would be highly galling if he were fined now.
So I've been down to the PO and done it, scanned the receipt and sent it to Dad so that if the database goes through a period when the car is showing as untaxed then he can show the receipt to plod if necessary.
Thanks for everyone's help!
I'm hoping that they won't chase him or fine him for the missing month's tax - it should really have been taxed from 01/11/2014 but it wasn't possible for me to back-date it. Given that there was a reasonable attempt to tax the car at the end of October, and DVLA staff told him there was no problem, and we've responded reasonably quickly now that we have been told of a problem, it would be highly galling if he were fined now.
Long old day and I haven't had a chance to catch up from earlier so OP
If its any help for the future of anyone, this is a useful site to check MOT and tax status without having the V5 reference number. Inexplicably, its almost impossible to find using DVLA Gateway.
https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dv...
OPIf its any help for the future of anyone, this is a useful site to check MOT and tax status without having the V5 reference number. Inexplicably, its almost impossible to find using DVLA Gateway.
https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dv...
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff