ignoring planning officer
Discussion
Just wondering if anyone know what the possible likely outcomes of completely ignoring a planning officer are..
I dont want to go into huge detail, but due to age/damage a wall requires replacement, when rebuilding I would like to allow the wall to run very slightly further around my property - we are talking 1 metre or so which allows the current extra dead space to be used and wont cost me any extar as we have to completely rebuild the wall anyway. It is also worth mentioning that it cant even be seen from the road as its completely behind trees/shrubs etc.
Originally I admit I did want to make massive changes which I knew would require planning approval and sent in a preapproval notice, which for valid reasons I was advised would not be approved.
So I changed my plans to rebuild in the same position but extending the end of the wall 1 metre behind the trees/shrubs.
Even though the planning officer agrees that it would be approved it simply isnt worth what we would gain to pay the £180 plus planning fees for such a minor change that cant even be seen just because its a 6ft wall.... its all b
ks anyway as I could build it 1 metre high without planning which would look ridiculous stepping down from the 6ft4 original wall height for a 1 metre section at the end ...just feels like local council money making and box ticking.
I now wish I had just done it without asking but am I correct in thinking that if I just build it the worst that could happen is that they force me to pay the planning fees if its reported within the next 4 years?
I dont want to go into huge detail, but due to age/damage a wall requires replacement, when rebuilding I would like to allow the wall to run very slightly further around my property - we are talking 1 metre or so which allows the current extra dead space to be used and wont cost me any extar as we have to completely rebuild the wall anyway. It is also worth mentioning that it cant even be seen from the road as its completely behind trees/shrubs etc.
Originally I admit I did want to make massive changes which I knew would require planning approval and sent in a preapproval notice, which for valid reasons I was advised would not be approved.
So I changed my plans to rebuild in the same position but extending the end of the wall 1 metre behind the trees/shrubs.
Even though the planning officer agrees that it would be approved it simply isnt worth what we would gain to pay the £180 plus planning fees for such a minor change that cant even be seen just because its a 6ft wall.... its all b
ks anyway as I could build it 1 metre high without planning which would look ridiculous stepping down from the 6ft4 original wall height for a 1 metre section at the end ...just feels like local council money making and box ticking.I now wish I had just done it without asking but am I correct in thinking that if I just build it the worst that could happen is that they force me to pay the planning fees if its reported within the next 4 years?
Edited by hedgefinder on Tuesday 9th December 08:53
hedgefinder said:
but am I correct in thinking that if I just build it the worst that could happen is that they force me to pay the planning fees if its reported within the next 4 years?
If it comes to their attention, then you're very likely to have to apply for retrospective planning permission.If, though, that isn't granted - you have the choice to appeal. If you still lose, then it's coming down.
TooMany2cvs said:
If it comes to their attention, then you're very likely to have to apply for retrospective planning permission.
If, though, that isn't granted - you have the choice to appeal. If you still lose, then it's coming down.
That what I was asking really, not concerned about retrospective planning if forced as I know 100% that there is absolutely no reason to refuse, and as i said previously they have already said that there is absolutely no reason that it wouldnt be granted, its just that even though its just a continuation of the existing 6ft wall its over 1m tall so their regulations state that I have to submit a planning application as part of their box ticking process..If, though, that isn't granted - you have the choice to appeal. If you still lose, then it's coming down.
I was just asking really to ensure that they cant force its removal simply because planning haddnt been obtained, as as far as I am aware they require a good reason for its removal.
If you come to sell the property and the wall is obviously "new" and/or visibly changed position then the buyer's solicitor may well want to see proof of planning permission. Working around this later in the day would cost you some legal fees or maybe even the sale.
If it's just the £180 you're worried about, personally I would pay it and sleep well at night. If it comes back to bite you then you'd wish you'd paid the money when it was purely procedural.
If it's just the £180 you're worried about, personally I would pay it and sleep well at night. If it comes back to bite you then you'd wish you'd paid the money when it was purely procedural.
I would have thought the cost of the rebuild is several multiples of £180. For the smallish cost of getting planning and everything being above board I don't see why you wouldn't?
Unless you've decided not to furnish us with all the factors (such as a grumpy neighbour(s) who might object if an application goes in)?
Unless you've decided not to furnish us with all the factors (such as a grumpy neighbour(s) who might object if an application goes in)?
MrPicky said:
Build the extra bit to the permitted height and then add a temporary brick-painted wooden section to make the wall as you want.
It might not be quite that simple, depending on location - my mother had the height of her garden fence raised to about 5ft, to stop her dog escaping - and promptly found herself facing down a retrospective planning permission application.TBF, though, that is a national park, where you just about need planning permission to pick a daisy.
hedgefinder said:
Just wondering if anyone know what the possible likely outcomes of completely ignoring a planning officer are..
I dont want to go into huge detail, but due to age/damage a wall requires replacement, when rebuilding I would like to allow the wall to run very slightly further around my property - we are talking 1 metre or so which allows the current extra dead space to be used and wont cost me any extar as we have to completely rebuild the wall anyway. It is also worth mentioning that it cant even be seen from the road as its completely behind trees/shrubs etc.
Originally I admit I did want to make massive changes which I knew would require planning approval and sent in a preapproval notice, which for valid reasons I was advised would not be approved.
So I changed my plans to rebuild in the same position but extending the end of the wall 1 metre behind the trees/shrubs.
Even though the planning officer agrees that it would be approved it simply isnt worth what we would gain to pay the £180 plus planning fees for such a minor change that cant even be seen just because its a 6ft wall.... its all bks anyway as I could build it 1 metre high without planning which would look ridiculous stepping down from the 6ft4 original wall height for a 1 metre section at the end ...just feels like local council money making and box ticking.
I now wish I had just done it without asking but am I correct in thinking that if I just build it the worst that could happen is that they force me to pay the planning fees if its reported within the next 4 years?
If it's lower than the trees / shrubs I would just crack on. I'd be surprised if it wasn't permitted development if it's 2m tall or less and you are maintaining a boundary (presumably).I dont want to go into huge detail, but due to age/damage a wall requires replacement, when rebuilding I would like to allow the wall to run very slightly further around my property - we are talking 1 metre or so which allows the current extra dead space to be used and wont cost me any extar as we have to completely rebuild the wall anyway. It is also worth mentioning that it cant even be seen from the road as its completely behind trees/shrubs etc.
Originally I admit I did want to make massive changes which I knew would require planning approval and sent in a preapproval notice, which for valid reasons I was advised would not be approved.
So I changed my plans to rebuild in the same position but extending the end of the wall 1 metre behind the trees/shrubs.
Even though the planning officer agrees that it would be approved it simply isnt worth what we would gain to pay the £180 plus planning fees for such a minor change that cant even be seen just because its a 6ft wall.... its all b
ks anyway as I could build it 1 metre high without planning which would look ridiculous stepping down from the 6ft4 original wall height for a 1 metre section at the end ...just feels like local council money making and box ticking.I now wish I had just done it without asking but am I correct in thinking that if I just build it the worst that could happen is that they force me to pay the planning fees if its reported within the next 4 years?
Edited by hedgefinder on Tuesday 9th December 08:53
The PO won't come out unless someone complains and he'd need to be fairly confident of his position to pursue enforcement action. If you're not blatantly taking the piss (and you know if you are) I'd just do it.
hedgefinder said:
TooMany2cvs said:
If it comes to their attention, then you're very likely to have to apply for retrospective planning permission.
If, though, that isn't granted - you have the choice to appeal. If you still lose, then it's coming down.
That what I was asking really, not concerned about retrospective planning if forced as I know 100% that there is absolutely no reason to refuse, and as i said previously they have already said that there is absolutely no reason that it wouldnt be granted, its just that even though its just a continuation of the existing 6ft wall its over 1m tall so their regulations state that I have to submit a planning application as part of their box ticking process..If, though, that isn't granted - you have the choice to appeal. If you still lose, then it's coming down.
I was just asking really to ensure that they cant force its removal simply because planning haddnt been obtained, as as far as I am aware they require a good reason for its removal.
Eleven said:
If it's lower than the trees / shrubs I would just crack on. I'd be surprised if it wasn't permitted development if it's 2m tall or less and you are maintaining a boundary (presumably).
The PO won't come out unless someone complains and he'd need to be fairly confident of his position to pursue enforcement action. If you're not blatantly taking the piss (and you know if you are) I'd just do it.
will be built in exactly the same positrion as the existing wall with the exception of the final 1 metre and is completely hidden by the bushes... you cant even see the current wall, and its also a long way within my property line - ie almost 2 metres within the side.The PO won't come out unless someone complains and he'd need to be fairly confident of his position to pursue enforcement action. If you're not blatantly taking the piss (and you know if you are) I'd just do it.
Oh, and by the way to answer another poster , nothing being hidden here.. and the neighbours have no concerns at all thanks.
Edited by hedgefinder on Tuesday 9th December 13:34
allergictocheese said:
I would have thought the cost of the rebuild is several multiples of £180. For the smallish cost of getting planning and everything being above board I don't see why you wouldn't?
Unless you've decided not to furnish us with all the factors (such as a grumpy neighbour(s) who might object if an application goes in)?
as its only the last 1 metre of the wall we are talking about here it certianly wouldnt be very expensive to rebuild it back in the current position.Unless you've decided not to furnish us with all the factors (such as a grumpy neighbour(s) who might object if an application goes in)?
Nobody will object as I have already discussed it with the neighbours, plus the fact that its well inside my property line and is nowhere near any of the neighbours as it faces the open road.
Build it. I live on an estate where I guess nearly 40% of the houses have done something (usually minor, most boundary walls, the odd garage and shed), that should've been the subject of a planning application, and even when pointed out to the planning office, absolutely nothing has happened. I think if it's something that would have been allowed anyway, they can't be bothered, as at the end of the day, it's just going to cost them money, that theses days they ain't got. But let this be a warning, never ever ask/tell the planning office anything about your ideas until you've got some independent, but authorative advice, as they do have the habit of saying no, even if that's complete bks. Tree preservation orders in particular.
ks. Tree preservation orders in particular.It's all about expediency of enforcement action. If no-one spots it, or if they do, but it's not expedient to enforce, then very little will happen. If someone complains but the LPA are happy with it, they will ask you to retrospectively apply. If they are not happy with it, they will serve you with an enforcement notice, which you can appeal. They will also put a charge on your land so selling your house will prove challenging.
The rules essentially are you can build a boundary feature up to 2 metres in height OR up to 1 metre adjacent to a highway, without planning permission.
The rules essentially are you can build a boundary feature up to 2 metres in height OR up to 1 metre adjacent to a highway, without planning permission.
roscopervis said:
It's all about expediency of enforcement action. If no-one spots it, or if they do, but it's not expedient to enforce, then very little will happen. If someone complains but the LPA are happy with it, they will ask you to retrospectively apply. If they are not happy with it, they will serve you with an enforcement notice, which you can appeal. They will also put a charge on your land so selling your house will prove challenging.
The rules essentially are you can build a boundary feature up to 2 metres in height OR up to 1 metre adjacent to a highway, without planning permission.
yes, this is the issue, although the existing wall is 6ft4in and set back almost 2m from the road, it is still adjacent to the road, soThe rules essentially are you can build a boundary feature up to 2 metres in height OR up to 1 metre adjacent to a highway, without planning permission.
to work to the letter of their regs the last metre can be built at 1m tall without permission and look ridiculous (if you could see it!) but requires full
planning approval to be built at the same height as the existing wall. I could see the issue if the wall was originally 1 metre tall or in fact ANY of the garden wall on the estate were less than 6ft, but a general computer says no attitude always seems to be the way with the planning department, it does seem that you require an application submitted in triplicate to fart in some areas.
I once had to resubmit plans and alter them to the head planners liking which everyone thought ruined the building and looked ridiculous,
he then told me that now they were drawn up he decided he didnt like the look of it - remember redrawn with the alterations that he requested... he then asked for further changes which ridiculously ended up exactly as my original plans.
When this was pointed out to the head planner he had no answer for it..
preferred my original plans...only after 6 months of decision making and holding up the build.
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