ANPR car park query

[matchmaker]

One of the open air car parks in Stirling was bought by a private company from the council and went from being Monday-Saturday 8am - 6pm pay by ticket from machine, free other times. It is now 24/7 ANPR camera controlled so you have to pay at any time.

I had to use it on Saturday and found one of the two ticket machines with a "not in service" message on the display. I trekked to the other end of the car park to find the other machine with a piece of papers stuck on it with "out of order - use other machine" on it.

I used the car park for about an hour. Question is - can I expect a "speculative invoice" for some enormous sum, or will the software detect that both machines were out of order? The second machine (with the notice on it) didn't have any error messages on the display.

I'll certainly pay what I would have had to pay - about £1 - but am interested to see what happens...

Edited by matchmaker on Wednesday 10th December 15:14

[Mr Taxpayer]

In England & Wales, I'd be tempted to take a picture of both machines and leave it at that. On arrival of a specualtive invoice, I'd send the pictures and ask to whom the cheque for £1 should be payable?

[lbc]

What's the point in ANPR if there are ticket machines?

ANPR will just record when you arrived and left the car park, and not if you bought a ticket or not?

[Foliage]

lbc said:

What's the point in ANPR if there are ticket machines?

ANPR will just record when you arrived and left the car park, and not if you bought a ticket or not?

ANPR is linked to the machine, you have to type your registration into the machine, so now they aren't even employing people to ticket, you just get an automatic ticket in the mail, so its now not worth chancing not paying (as I often used to). I used to never pay to park, now I generally only shop where its free.

[covboy]

lbc said:

What's the point in ANPR if there are ticket machines?

ANPR will just record when you arrived and left the car park, and not if you bought a ticket or not?

You type in your Reg number and it tells you how much to pay – then checks you on the way out
A. To see if you’ve paid
B. Not stayed any longer

[matchmaker]

lbc said:

What's the point in ANPR if there are ticket machines?

ANPR will just record when you arrived and left the car park, and not if you bought a ticket or not?

It's an unmanned car park. How else apart from linking ANPR and ticket machines can they know if you have paid?

[matchmaker]

Mr Taxpayer said:

In England & Wales, I'd be tempted to take a picture of both machines and leave it at that. On arrival of a specualtive invoice, I'd send the pictures and ask to whom the cheque for £1 should be payable?

In Scotland I did just that...

[Spare tyre]

would be a good school boy prank

stick a couple of signs on all the machines

i guess the cunning software would send of a notification if money stopped being pumped into the machines

[AA999]

My solution, I think I've mentioned this in the past, is that I bought a number plate flipper a while ago and had it installed on my daily run around.... I've never had a problem with private operated car parks since

My number plate flips from actual to blank both front and rear. I think I'm correct in saying that your vehicle has to display reg number at all times when on public highway, but this law doesn't extend to non-public highway roads/land.

[_dobbo_]

AA999 said:

I think I'm correct in saying that your vehicle has to display reg number at all times when on public highway, but this law doesn't extend to non-public highway roads/land.

So when you drive out of the carpark, onto a public highway, you are displaying which plate?

[PurpleMoonlight]

AA999 said:

My solution, I think I've mentioned this in the past, is that I bought a number plate flipper a while ago and had it installed on my daily run around.... I've never had a problem with private operated car parks since

Does that include pay and display which you don't pay for?

[AA999]

_dobbo_ said:

So when you drive out of the carpark, onto a public highway, you are displaying which plate?

Obviously once past the ANPR cameras the plate is flipped to be legal for public highway.

[covboy]

Didn't this come up a while back when someone on a motorbike got "done" for having one of these ?

[AA999]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Does that include pay and display which you don't pay for?

I never said I didn't pay for parking

It just eliminates any errors they make from impacting me.
And I have experience of a PPC making an error in which caused me unnecessary time to sort out. (Double dipping I think the terminology is - whereby one makes numerous visits to a car park and their system logs you in on the first and only logs you out after the 2nd visit, in doing so stating that you have overstayed your welcome).

On top of this I just don't feel comfortable with PPCs or other private companies tracking my vehicle movements. ANPR is cropping up seemingly everywhere.
I have to live according to law where I am obliged to, so I its always on legal plate when on public highway.

[PurpleMoonlight]

AA999 said:

On top of this I just don't feel comfortable with PPCs or other private companies tracking my vehicle movements. ANPR is cropping up seemingly everywhere.
I have to live according to law where I am obliged to, so I its always on legal plate when on public highway.

Do you own a copy of Catcher in the Rye too?

I thought the highway laws apply to a public car parks, that's why you have to be taxed and insured when in them and can be done for speeding if appropriate.

Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Wednesday 10th December 17:06

[JVaughan]

plenty of advice on the Moneysavingexpert forums about this ... Wait for the Invoice and appeal. You wont win the appeal, no one ever does, just get an appeals code and take it to a higher authority.

[aw51 121565]

In Scotland?

POFA2012 and the attached 'independent appeals service' etc applieth not, north of the border .

Strongly agree though, OP - visit 'money saving expert' and get up to speed with how it all works (also 'pepipoo' and 'parking prankster' websites) , as knowledge is power in this area.

[aw51 121565]

AA999 said:

...

I have to live according to law where I am obliged to, so I its always on legal plate when on public highway.

Please report back what the police say should they ever find your number plate-flipping devices . You'd look good with a stripy tan, which is what you could possibly end up with if it went extremely badly in court for you .

I think it's covered under Construction & Use Regs, ie number plates must be properly affixed to the vehicle - but I'm sure someone will correct me on this point if I'm wrong .

[caziques]

The "out of order" notices could easily be put up by the car park operator, who then sends out speculative invoices - which a lot of people will pay.

Overall result is a much better rate of return than trying to charge a legitimate amount.

The scam can't be found out as there is no appeal to POPLA in Scotland.

[AA999]

aw51 121565 said:

You'd look good with a stripy tan, which is what you could possibly end up with if it went extremely badly in court for you

Why thank you darling.

aw51 121565 said:

I think it's covered under Construction & Use Regs, ie number plates must be properly affixed to the vehicle - but I'm sure someone will correct me on this point if I'm wrong .

I would like further clarification on this myself.
As far as I am aware the number plate is displaying the vehicle's legal reg & font type and size, it is also firmly affixed to the front and rear of the vehicle at the correct height and angle etc.