A question on Signing paperwork
Discussion
So, when I bought the Mrs's car, I made the unusual step for me of buying from a dealer - but it was a good car at the the right price etc (second hand clearly).
I agreed with the salesman the price and we agreed the deal was done. Now as far I understand the law, that's it- the deal was done. I promise to pay him and he gives me the car. However he then produces various documents full of small print that he wants me to sign - which I did.
What would be the position if I refused to sign anything - beyond a simple confirmation that I had got the car? Is it implicit that agreeing a deal at a dealer, means you will accept all their T&Cs ie that the sale is conditional on me signing. Or does the verbal contract stand - simple sale with no T&C applied later?
Just interested.....
I agreed with the salesman the price and we agreed the deal was done. Now as far I understand the law, that's it- the deal was done. I promise to pay him and he gives me the car. However he then produces various documents full of small print that he wants me to sign - which I did.
What would be the position if I refused to sign anything - beyond a simple confirmation that I had got the car? Is it implicit that agreeing a deal at a dealer, means you will accept all their T&Cs ie that the sale is conditional on me signing. Or does the verbal contract stand - simple sale with no T&C applied later?
Just interested.....
I was told if I didn't sign the 'free' paint protection policy (which I don't believe for a moment they applied) then I couldn't take the car.
As they knew my company car had been collected from the dealership 30 mins earlier and I was 100 miles from home, they somewhat had me on the back-foot.
As they knew my company car had been collected from the dealership 30 mins earlier and I was 100 miles from home, they somewhat had me on the back-foot.
Sadly due to the shear amount of people who will try it on after purchase they have to cover themselves by having you sign docs to agree to the terms of sale.
This might include the fact that if you pull out the deposit might not be refundable if any work have been done on the car, that you agree you have to tax and insure the car when driving away, any terms on the warranty they may offer, etc etc.
During my time as a salesman I had someone try and back from a deal saying their husband had died. Work had already started on the van as per the agreement with the customer but we gave back the deposit as good will. I later bumped into her dead husband at a motorhome show a few months later. So the company I worked for put a condition about any work being completed on the vehicle would be paid for out of the deposit. (just as an example)
This might include the fact that if you pull out the deposit might not be refundable if any work have been done on the car, that you agree you have to tax and insure the car when driving away, any terms on the warranty they may offer, etc etc.
During my time as a salesman I had someone try and back from a deal saying their husband had died. Work had already started on the van as per the agreement with the customer but we gave back the deposit as good will. I later bumped into her dead husband at a motorhome show a few months later. So the company I worked for put a condition about any work being completed on the vehicle would be paid for out of the deposit. (just as an example)
3Dee said:
I would NEVER sign any doc unless I fully understood the contents, even the small print. Boring to read and ask for clarification I know, but you are just opening yourself up to potential shenanigans if you don't. Not good!
Yes I know that and I read it.
But what if I had refused - could he have refused to sell me the car.
No money had changed hands, but my view was a verbal contract had been agreed.
Yes you may have made a verbal contract, the dealer might have terms that were not made clear straight away, but so probably do you. I suspect you would want to complete the sale within the next few days or weeks, I suspect you'd want the keys to be included, were they in your verbal contract?
balls-out said:
Yes I know that and I read it.
But what if I had refused - could he have refused to sell me the car.
No money had changed hands, but my view was a verbal contract had been agreed.
Cant speak for the dealer in question but I have refused to sell a vehicle to a customer who refused to sign anything. I told him he was more than welcome to read all the small print and any questions would be answered by our Admin manager for the group but he wouldn't give me a real reason, so I declined to sell the car.But what if I had refused - could he have refused to sell me the car.
No money had changed hands, but my view was a verbal contract had been agreed.
Dealers, especially franchised ones are well known for making you sign paperwork that means you have to give them your first born and similar stuff 
The dealer is more than likely covering their back over what they've advised, what will be included and what's not in the sale and so on.
Oh and verbal contracts are not worth the paper they're written on.
The dealer is more than likely covering their back over what they've advised, what will be included and what's not in the sale and so on.
Oh and verbal contracts are not worth the paper they're written on.
balls-out said:
So, when I bought the Mrs's car, I made the unusual step for me of buying from a dealer - but it was a good car at the the right price etc (second hand clearly).
I agreed with the salesman the price and we agreed the deal was done. Now as far I understand the law, that's it- the deal was done. I promise to pay him and he gives me the car. However he then produces various documents full of small print that he wants me to sign - which I did.
What would be the position if I refused to sign anything - beyond a simple confirmation that I had got the car? Is it implicit that agreeing a deal at a dealer, means you will accept all their T&Cs ie that the sale is conditional on me signing. Or does the verbal contract stand - simple sale with no T&C applied later?
Just interested.....
There's no verbal contract, you've merely accepted an "invitation to treat". Until you've signed the docs either of you can pull out. I agreed with the salesman the price and we agreed the deal was done. Now as far I understand the law, that's it- the deal was done. I promise to pay him and he gives me the car. However he then produces various documents full of small print that he wants me to sign - which I did.
What would be the position if I refused to sign anything - beyond a simple confirmation that I had got the car? Is it implicit that agreeing a deal at a dealer, means you will accept all their T&Cs ie that the sale is conditional on me signing. Or does the verbal contract stand - simple sale with no T&C applied later?
Just interested.....
Same principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
McClure said:
There's no verbal contract, you've merely accepted an "invitation to treat". Until you've signed the docs either of you can pull out.
Same principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
thanks - yes that makes senseSame principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
balls-out said:
McClure said:
There's no verbal contract, you've merely accepted an "invitation to treat". Until you've signed the docs either of you can pull out.
Same principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
thanks - yes that makes senseSame principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
Car with price in the lot, you go in say I'd like to buy it. Discuss the terms, make offer, haggle, agree price, agree other terms (number of keys, servicing, collection date, payment terms, stuff). Pay deposit in cash, pay balance later by bank transfer, pick up on collection date. So no paperwork needed.
So when in that process is the contract made? So if before the contract is made, dealer says sign here and you don't want to, deal off. If after contract is made, then the contract has been made and the paperwork may well be trying to vary it.
Bert
BertBert said:
Sense, but not correct. You can clearly have a verbal contract. So the car can be bought purely through verbal agreement.
Car with price in the lot, you go in say I'd like to buy it. Discuss the terms, make offer, haggle, agree price, agree other terms (number of keys, servicing, collection date, payment terms, stuff). Pay deposit in cash, pay balance later by bank transfer, pick up on collection date. So no paperwork needed.
So when in that process is the contract made? So if before the contract is made, dealer says sign here and you don't want to, deal off. If after contract is made, then the contract has been made and the paperwork may well be trying to vary it.
Bert
Yes you can have a verbal contract, but in the OP's scenario that isn't one. You could try arguing it in Court if you like but you'd lose. Car with price in the lot, you go in say I'd like to buy it. Discuss the terms, make offer, haggle, agree price, agree other terms (number of keys, servicing, collection date, payment terms, stuff). Pay deposit in cash, pay balance later by bank transfer, pick up on collection date. So no paperwork needed.
So when in that process is the contract made? So if before the contract is made, dealer says sign here and you don't want to, deal off. If after contract is made, then the contract has been made and the paperwork may well be trying to vary it.
Bert
balls-out said:
McClure said:
There's no verbal contract, you've merely accepted an "invitation to treat". Until you've signed the docs either of you can pull out.
Same principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
thanks - yes that makes senseSame principle as a shop not having to sell you something just because you "accept" the price by taking the item to the till.
The vendor has a big advantage if he can wheel out the contract terms after the punter has committed to a substantial expenditure, one of several downsides of an emotional purchase process.
Nothing to stop a punter taking the black pen to the contract "No, don't like that", although many dealers/traders are past masters at controlling the sales process.
Nothing to stop a punter taking the black pen to the contract "No, don't like that", although many dealers/traders are past masters at controlling the sales process.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff