Property/Probate Question
Discussion
A question for the legal beagles…
A close friend’s 98 yr old mother is seriously ill in hospital – she is normally resident in a nursing home, but was admitted recently and apparently the prognosis is poor.
Anyway, to fill in a bit more, she is self-financing in the Nursing Home as she still owns a small 1 bedroom house and therefore her assets are beyond the threshold – her liquid assets are depleting so it will be apparently only a few months before a charge has to placed upon the property to cover the balance of the fees.
My friend holds a Property and Financial Affairs LPA for her as she didn’t want the responsibility of running her affairs when her eyesight failed to the point she couldn’t read, and at the same time as doing the LPA she made a new will, appointing her solicitor as executor as the previous executor suffered a shorter life span than hers, and thought it unfair on her son to have to deal with that as well.
We were talking yesterday and he was worried that apart from the worry of her illness, the appointment of the solicitor as executor could be an issue when it came to dealing with the house after her death – mainly because she insists that the house remain her property, and not rented out as long as she draws breath – he thinks she lives in hope she could move back.
Basically – as the house is unoccupied, although the heating is set on but at a lower temperature it is not being regularly tended to as there is 300 miles between where he lives and her house. The basics of the house are ok but the garden has gone to ratsh*t, and to be honest the whole house will need redecorating and some minor repairs, which he accepts he’ll have to do. He is not a rich bloke and understandably he is concerned that the solicitors will freeze the accounts and not allow him to draw on her account to carry out the repairs/decoration/garden and house clearance and he won’t be able to “sub” the repairs until the estate is settled, as houses in that area aren’t selling very well and therefore could be a while – it would definitely need “tarting and fettling” for sale. Also who is responsible for the interim utility bills - does the solicitor permit direct debits to continue from the accounts to maintain these essential services, especially if it is winter and heating absolutely necessary. He wondered where he would stand if he withdrew a sum and held it on one side so he would have a cash float for doing this work - I feel this may be unwise, but maybe it is legitamate if the solicitor is informed and all receipts kept for services and materials?
He doesn’t want to ask the solicitors outright what happens in the event of her death and the administration of the estate, firstly on cost of consultation, and secondly as her solicitor is local to her, not him.
Is anyone on here familiar with that side of the law – at least familiar enough to give him an idea of procedure and what is and not allowed as far as property maintenance and bills concerned.
Also, in the event she is around long enough to place a charge on the house for care fees, and of course the solicitor not wanting to wait forever to liquidate the estate to comply with the terms of the will, will they want to get the quickest sale possible and either auction it or go to one of these “we buy your house quick (but we’ll only give you half what it’s worth)” or go for the normal route and best price?
He is quite worried about all this and I thought maybe I could pass on your views as he is not a PH member
Thanks
A close friend’s 98 yr old mother is seriously ill in hospital – she is normally resident in a nursing home, but was admitted recently and apparently the prognosis is poor.
Anyway, to fill in a bit more, she is self-financing in the Nursing Home as she still owns a small 1 bedroom house and therefore her assets are beyond the threshold – her liquid assets are depleting so it will be apparently only a few months before a charge has to placed upon the property to cover the balance of the fees.
My friend holds a Property and Financial Affairs LPA for her as she didn’t want the responsibility of running her affairs when her eyesight failed to the point she couldn’t read, and at the same time as doing the LPA she made a new will, appointing her solicitor as executor as the previous executor suffered a shorter life span than hers, and thought it unfair on her son to have to deal with that as well.
We were talking yesterday and he was worried that apart from the worry of her illness, the appointment of the solicitor as executor could be an issue when it came to dealing with the house after her death – mainly because she insists that the house remain her property, and not rented out as long as she draws breath – he thinks she lives in hope she could move back.
Basically – as the house is unoccupied, although the heating is set on but at a lower temperature it is not being regularly tended to as there is 300 miles between where he lives and her house. The basics of the house are ok but the garden has gone to ratsh*t, and to be honest the whole house will need redecorating and some minor repairs, which he accepts he’ll have to do. He is not a rich bloke and understandably he is concerned that the solicitors will freeze the accounts and not allow him to draw on her account to carry out the repairs/decoration/garden and house clearance and he won’t be able to “sub” the repairs until the estate is settled, as houses in that area aren’t selling very well and therefore could be a while – it would definitely need “tarting and fettling” for sale. Also who is responsible for the interim utility bills - does the solicitor permit direct debits to continue from the accounts to maintain these essential services, especially if it is winter and heating absolutely necessary. He wondered where he would stand if he withdrew a sum and held it on one side so he would have a cash float for doing this work - I feel this may be unwise, but maybe it is legitamate if the solicitor is informed and all receipts kept for services and materials?
He doesn’t want to ask the solicitors outright what happens in the event of her death and the administration of the estate, firstly on cost of consultation, and secondly as her solicitor is local to her, not him.
Is anyone on here familiar with that side of the law – at least familiar enough to give him an idea of procedure and what is and not allowed as far as property maintenance and bills concerned.
Also, in the event she is around long enough to place a charge on the house for care fees, and of course the solicitor not wanting to wait forever to liquidate the estate to comply with the terms of the will, will they want to get the quickest sale possible and either auction it or go to one of these “we buy your house quick (but we’ll only give you half what it’s worth)” or go for the normal route and best price?
He is quite worried about all this and I thought maybe I could pass on your views as he is not a PH member
Thanks
Appointing the solicitor as executor was the first mistake by your friends mother as he will lose control of events after she passes away
It's the executor's responsibility to pay the interim bills until the property is disposed of and claim expenses out of the estate. I don't know if the solicitor would be prepared to organise any decorating work on the property or whether they'd just get a local estate agent to sell it as it is.
It's the executor's responsibility to pay the interim bills until the property is disposed of and claim expenses out of the estate. I don't know if the solicitor would be prepared to organise any decorating work on the property or whether they'd just get a local estate agent to sell it as it is.
My guess is not only is his mother too ill to make a codicil to the will to remove the solicitors as executors it is probably impractical.
As he has the Property and Financial Affairs LPA, doesn't any part of that allow him to alter the executors? I am assuming in the worst case the solicitors are duty bound to cooperate with him to get the best outcome on the house or the solicitor could be actionable as not acting in the best interests of the client/estate?
As he has the Property and Financial Affairs LPA, doesn't any part of that allow him to alter the executors? I am assuming in the worst case the solicitors are duty bound to cooperate with him to get the best outcome on the house or the solicitor could be actionable as not acting in the best interests of the client/estate?
Yes, with a solicitor as executor the words 'expensive' and 'slow' come to mind.
However the solicitor/executor doesn't come into play until she dies, and with LPA your friend can do anything he wants with her assets as he is legally 'her' as long as she stays alive and is incapable to deal with her financial affairs. Obviously, the one thing he can't do is change the will or its executor.
That said, I wouldn't set about selling the house if she expressly doesn't want to; the council will treat her as if she still had the money even if you give it away.
He could rent the house out to help pay for her care fees , but I wouldn't improve it so there is more equity in it for the council to grab.
If the council put a charge on the house the solicitor will need to sell the house quickly/cheaply to settle the debt, unless the recipient of the house in the will stumps up the readies to pay the council off.
However the solicitor/executor doesn't come into play until she dies, and with LPA your friend can do anything he wants with her assets as he is legally 'her' as long as she stays alive and is incapable to deal with her financial affairs. Obviously, the one thing he can't do is change the will or its executor.
That said, I wouldn't set about selling the house if she expressly doesn't want to; the council will treat her as if she still had the money even if you give it away.
He could rent the house out to help pay for her care fees , but I wouldn't improve it so there is more equity in it for the council to grab.
If the council put a charge on the house the solicitor will need to sell the house quickly/cheaply to settle the debt, unless the recipient of the house in the will stumps up the readies to pay the council off.
I have some experience of this having handled my father's affairs and after his passing I was the executor. It is a damned tricky business and I sympathise with your friend.
There is clearly a calculation to be made on the current nursing home expenditure vs cash at bank .. I assume he has visibility of that?
I think as he does have an LPA that it would be a responsible action to at least spend some current money on getting the house into a less neglected state and then perhaps set up some on going garden maintenance just to keep on top of things... Similarly if he can visit the property and keep it clean and at least looked after... with just elbow grease that would help. He would be justified in claiming some basic expenses in doing so. e.g. Travel to the property.
If your friends mum does pass, The executor will inform all creditors such as utility companies/ council tax. They do understand the situation and won't suddenly start cutting things off or demanding payment, they are in general very good about these things and will accept settlement when the estate is settled.
It is the executor's job to get the best deal for the estate and benificiaries... and it would normal for the solicitor to be very co-operative and consultative with your friend when settling matters... bills will be very transparent...
It might be worth your friend visiting the citizen's advice bureau.... just to have a chat... also... if the solicitor knows he/she is the executor, he/she is more than likely to give your friend free advice on the whole situation anyway...he could telephone them... or preface the call with an e-mail
Hope this helps...
A
There is clearly a calculation to be made on the current nursing home expenditure vs cash at bank .. I assume he has visibility of that?
I think as he does have an LPA that it would be a responsible action to at least spend some current money on getting the house into a less neglected state and then perhaps set up some on going garden maintenance just to keep on top of things... Similarly if he can visit the property and keep it clean and at least looked after... with just elbow grease that would help. He would be justified in claiming some basic expenses in doing so. e.g. Travel to the property.
If your friends mum does pass, The executor will inform all creditors such as utility companies/ council tax. They do understand the situation and won't suddenly start cutting things off or demanding payment, they are in general very good about these things and will accept settlement when the estate is settled.
It is the executor's job to get the best deal for the estate and benificiaries... and it would normal for the solicitor to be very co-operative and consultative with your friend when settling matters... bills will be very transparent...
It might be worth your friend visiting the citizen's advice bureau.... just to have a chat... also... if the solicitor knows he/she is the executor, he/she is more than likely to give your friend free advice on the whole situation anyway...he could telephone them... or preface the call with an e-mail
Hope this helps...
A
My guess is not only is his mother too ill to make a codicil to the will to remove the solicitors as executors it is probably impractical.
As he has the Property and Financial Affairs LPA, doesn't any part of that allow him to alter the executors? I am assuming in the worst case the solicitors are duty bound to cooperate with him to get the best outcome on the house or the solicitor could be actionable as not acting in the best interests of the client/estate?
As he has the Property and Financial Affairs LPA, doesn't any part of that allow him to alter the executors? I am assuming in the worst case the solicitors are duty bound to cooperate with him to get the best outcome on the house or the solicitor could be actionable as not acting in the best interests of the client/estate?
T...I'd steer clear of trying to adjust wills or attempting anything like that... .
I'm sensing some nervousness about solictor's here.. you and your friend shouldn't be.
It is perfectly normal to appoint a solicitor as executor.. Often when there are complicated circumstances it is the most practical thing to do. But I agree you need to keep an eye on costs. And yes it is their duty to do their absolute best for the beneficiaries.
Friends or family can also be appointed executors... and I'm sure as other PH'ers will testify, its not always the easiest job and one generally appoints the services of solictor alongside also..
Depending on the number of beneficiaries and their agreement, I am pretty sure you can ask a named Solicitor executor to stand down and your friend can take on the job himself he can then shop around for 'probate services' to get the best deal. But this is only something you can do when the unfortunate event happens.
I'm sensing some nervousness about solictor's here.. you and your friend shouldn't be.
It is perfectly normal to appoint a solicitor as executor.. Often when there are complicated circumstances it is the most practical thing to do. But I agree you need to keep an eye on costs. And yes it is their duty to do their absolute best for the beneficiaries.
Friends or family can also be appointed executors... and I'm sure as other PH'ers will testify, its not always the easiest job and one generally appoints the services of solictor alongside also..
Depending on the number of beneficiaries and their agreement, I am pretty sure you can ask a named Solicitor executor to stand down and your friend can take on the job himself he can then shop around for 'probate services' to get the best deal. But this is only something you can do when the unfortunate event happens.
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