Accidents don't exist?
Discussion
According to PH's favourite charity:
"Road crashes are not accidents; they are devastating and preventable events, not chance mishaps. Calling them accidents undermines work to make roads safer, and can cause insult to families whose lives have been torn apart by needless casualties."
"Road crashes are not accidents; they are devastating and preventable events, not chance mishaps. Calling them accidents undermines work to make roads safer, and can cause insult to families whose lives have been torn apart by needless casualties."
The usual suspects said:
Road crashes are not accidents; they are devastating and preventable events, not chance mishaps.
A lot of the time, they're absolutely right. Most "accidents" ARE utterly preventable.The usual suspects said:
Calling them accidents undermines work to make roads safer
...but this is complete ballcocks. The problem isn't the ROADS. It's people failing to engage brain and eyes. Yes, some layouts could be improved, but if people took proper account of a poor layout, there wouldn't be an issue.The usual suspects said:
and can cause insult to families whose lives have been torn apart by needless casualties.
A lot of the time, those who are being "insulted" (by saying that it wasn't anybody's fault, just an accident?) are the people who caused the collision - or, at the very least, could easily have prevented or avoided it.If they wanted to actually make a difference, they'd start pointing the finger in the right direction.
I think the definition of 'accident' can be made to suit your cause, but I used to get passed RTA's to process, but since a few years ago I now get RTC's to process.
I guess calling it a Road Traffic Collision leaves the door open for it to be an accident if that is what it was.
Whereby terming it accident from the outset means that you have defined the collision already as that.
Just my take on it.
I guess calling it a Road Traffic Collision leaves the door open for it to be an accident if that is what it was.
Whereby terming it accident from the outset means that you have defined the collision already as that.
Just my take on it.
TooMany2cvs said:
The usual suspects said:
Road crashes are not accidents; they are devastating and preventable events, not chance mishaps.
A lot of the time, they're absolutely right. Most "accidents" ARE utterly preventable.The usual suspects said:
Calling them accidents undermines work to make roads safer
...but this is complete ballcocks. The problem isn't the ROADS. It's people failing to engage brain and eyes. Yes, some layouts could be improved, but if people took proper account of a poor layout, there wouldn't be an issue.The usual suspects said:
and can cause insult to families whose lives have been torn apart by needless casualties.
A lot of the time, those who are being "insulted" (by saying that it wasn't anybody's fault, just an accident?) are the people who caused the collision - or, at the very least, could easily have prevented or avoided it.If they wanted to actually make a difference, they'd start pointing the finger in the right direction.
I read a very long and interesting thread on Barryboys recently where the owner of one of said Barrymobiles which had been pictured in a smashed up state after crashing turned up shouting the odds (ironically about lack of "respec" for dead idiots).
It became apparent that said Barry and their mates (seemingly including some recently departed ones who ran out of talent in an ill-judged overtake - not BTW the subject of the photo) seemed to regard crashing as "accidents" and part of normal driving caused by extraneous factors entirely divorced from their own god-like driving abilities.
andburg said:
whether it was avoidable doesn't define accident..surely its whether the "event" was a conscious purposeful decision that?
That's right. I think the problem is that people try to give the word accident extra meanings, and then they argue with the extra meanings. If it wasn't on purpose, then it was an accident.andburg said:
whether it was avoidable doesn't define accident..surely its whether the "event" was a conscious purposeful decision that?
If you're walking down a pavement, without looking where you're going, and walk straight into a lamp post, is that a totally accidental accident - or might there, just perhaps, be an element of contributory wuckfittery?RobinOakapple said:
andburg said:
whether it was avoidable doesn't define accident..surely its whether the "event" was a conscious purposeful decision that?
That's right. I think the problem is that people try to give the word accident extra meanings, and then they argue with the extra meanings. If it wasn't on purpose, then it was an accident.If accidents are anything where the driver didn't fully intend and decide to crash, then almost all crashes must be accidents - and I don't think they are.
V8forweekends said:
RobinOakapple said:
andburg said:
whether it was avoidable doesn't define accident..surely its whether the "event" was a conscious purposeful decision that?
That's right. I think the problem is that people try to give the word accident extra meanings, and then they argue with the extra meanings. If it wasn't on purpose, then it was an accident.If accidents are anything where the driver didn't fully intend and decide to crash, then almost all crashes must be accidents - and I don't think they are.
TheLemming said:
While if you dig hard enough someone is always to blame
Yep.TheLemming said:
the majority of collisions are accidental.
Not negligent, not through malice of forethought, not through carelessness.
WRONG. Absolutely flat wrong. They are absolutely through negligence and carelessness, usually on the part of at least two people.Not negligent, not through malice of forethought, not through carelessness.
TheLemming said:
There are a lot of cars on the road interacting and a small mistake is all it takes to cause a collision.
Strange how everybody seems to get along without incident just fine 99.9999% of the time, eh?TheLemming said:
While if you dig hard enough someone is always to blame - the majority of collisions are accidental.
Not negligent, not through malice of forethought, not through carelessness. There are a lot of cars on the road interacting and a small mistake is all it takes to cause a collision.
+1Not negligent, not through malice of forethought, not through carelessness. There are a lot of cars on the road interacting and a small mistake is all it takes to cause a collision.
You can say the same for aircraft and industrial accidents. Invariably preventable but nevertheless accidents
The body concerned with investigating the causes of air crashes and hopefully preventing a recurrence is called the air accident investigation board.
The problem with saying that because something is preventable therefore someone must be to blame, is that once you start looking for someone to prosecute you have little chance have finding the cause, because anyone involved will naturally want to keep their mouths shut to avoid incriminating themselves.
motco said:
I dislike the oversimplification of 'accident' vs 'collision', and, more to the point, the manipulation of language to try to control thought.
Agree. Political point scoring by a pressure group with their own agenda at the expense of the people adversely impacted upon as a result of incidents which have occurred on the road. Their take on this is an insult to basic intelligence and trades on the experience of misery by others in an attempt to impose their will on the populace.
TooMany2cvs said:
If you're walking down a pavement, without looking where you're going, and walk straight into a lamp post, is that a totally accidental accident - or might there, just perhaps, be an element of contributory wuckfittery?
In my mind yes its an accident.There may be a million contributing factors in the event or just 1 but i did not purposely do it even if am wholly to blame for my own stupidity. If we take the viewpoint that its not an accident because i could have easily avoided caving my skull in on that lamppost by looking or not leaving the house then surely accidents don't exist as everything is avoidable.
For me an accident does not mean noone carries blame or an event was completely unforseeable. But then I don't work in a legal profession!
I really dislike this whole where there's blame theres a claim world we live in as it seems noone is actually responsible for their own actions
andburg said:
In my mind yes its an accident.
There may be a million contributing factors in the event or just 1 but i did not purposely do it even if am wholly to blame for my own stupidity. If we take the viewpoint that its not an accident because i could have easily avoided caving my skull in on that lamppost by looking or not leaving the house then surely accidents don't exist as everything is avoidable.
For me an accident does not mean noone carries blame or an event was completely unforseeable. But then I don't work in a legal profession!
I really dislike this whole where there's blame theres a claim world we live in as it seems noone is actually responsible for their own actions
I totally agree with your last sentence - but in my mind, calling collisions accidents is a symptom of that - it is only semantics, but suggesting and accidental nature to stuff that could have been forseen doesn't encourage people to consider and be responsible for their actions.There may be a million contributing factors in the event or just 1 but i did not purposely do it even if am wholly to blame for my own stupidity. If we take the viewpoint that its not an accident because i could have easily avoided caving my skull in on that lamppost by looking or not leaving the house then surely accidents don't exist as everything is avoidable.
For me an accident does not mean noone carries blame or an event was completely unforseeable. But then I don't work in a legal profession!
I really dislike this whole where there's blame theres a claim world we live in as it seems noone is actually responsible for their own actions
V8forweekends said:
I totally agree with your last sentence - but in my mind, calling collisions accidents is a symptom of that - it is only semantics, but suggesting and accidental nature to stuff that could have been forseen doesn't encourage people to consider and be responsible for their actions.
Everything can be foreseen after the event, even the lottery numbers. You are still going with the new meaning of accident I see.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff