I've been asked to resign
Discussion
"I've been asked to resign" says one of my part-time staff, who happens to be the girlfriend of one of my friends, in regard to her full-time job.
She's been forwarding me (and others) emails from her new supervisor, for the last couple of weeks. Some range from her new supervisor complaining that she does not make any attempt to join in on team meetings, others are the new team-leader threatening to raise a formal complaint about the office junior being sent out to fetch milk to replace the milk, which he admits to have consumed, even though the rest of the staff pay toward the same milk, but no-one else is getting a b
king for the junior being sent out.
From what I can gather, the new team leader is setting rules she doesn't follow herself. The new team leader is less qualified than the person who has been asked to resign..
The person asked to resign has been offered by email, by the MD: "Give your notice and get a month paid notice and two weeks redundancy pay."
Just before the new team leader was employed, the MD insisted that this person should get a new car on finance so she would appear presentable to the clients.
I've told her to get an employment lawyer months ago, after she fell down badly maintained stairs and broke her arm and elbow (which incidentally caused me havoc in finding last minute staff to cover her) as she was not being paid sick pay, let alone any compensation. I've also told her to delete any paper-trail of emails forwarded to anyone. I've also told her that if someone want rid then she should go but make sure she gets the best deal possible.
My questions are this:
- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
- Can you be legally asked to resign and if so, who calls the terms?
- If she decides to pursue unfair dismissal or similar, how will this impact on her future employment?
- Can she use the internal emails as part of a disciplinary?
She's been forwarding me (and others) emails from her new supervisor, for the last couple of weeks. Some range from her new supervisor complaining that she does not make any attempt to join in on team meetings, others are the new team-leader threatening to raise a formal complaint about the office junior being sent out to fetch milk to replace the milk, which he admits to have consumed, even though the rest of the staff pay toward the same milk, but no-one else is getting a b
king for the junior being sent out.From what I can gather, the new team leader is setting rules she doesn't follow herself. The new team leader is less qualified than the person who has been asked to resign..
The person asked to resign has been offered by email, by the MD: "Give your notice and get a month paid notice and two weeks redundancy pay."
Just before the new team leader was employed, the MD insisted that this person should get a new car on finance so she would appear presentable to the clients.
I've told her to get an employment lawyer months ago, after she fell down badly maintained stairs and broke her arm and elbow (which incidentally caused me havoc in finding last minute staff to cover her) as she was not being paid sick pay, let alone any compensation. I've also told her to delete any paper-trail of emails forwarded to anyone. I've also told her that if someone want rid then she should go but make sure she gets the best deal possible.
My questions are this:
- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
- Can you be legally asked to resign and if so, who calls the terms?
- If she decides to pursue unfair dismissal or similar, how will this impact on her future employment?
- Can she use the internal emails as part of a disciplinary?
I know nothing really but my gut feeling is that they aren't following due process and going through the required disciplinary procedure and this is an underhand method of getting rid of someone cheaply when the alternatives are a costly redundancy or a lengthy disciplinary procedure which would require the employer to have some kind of problem with the member of staff which was ongoing, documented, and worthy of a disciplinary.
This all sounds pretty confusing ... is this your company - ? You mention your business partner ... ? At this firm? Or a separate company? Is this the MD you refer to? I suspect not.
As I understand it, she should speak to someone as soon as she can. I don't think you have to resign if asked - well, you can, but only as a precursor to then being sacked if you don't (usually) - and then you can go down the unfair/constructive dismissal route if that applies.
I think you need to explain more as mentioned above as to the way this company is set up.
As I understand it, she should speak to someone as soon as she can. I don't think you have to resign if asked - well, you can, but only as a precursor to then being sacked if you don't (usually) - and then you can go down the unfair/constructive dismissal route if that applies.
I think you need to explain more as mentioned above as to the way this company is set up.
bacon11178 said:
My questions are this:
- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
Union Lawyers will help - but you have to be in the Union of course.- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
ACAS has information for Employees and online help http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1650
bacon11178 said:
- Can you be legally asked to resign and if so, who calls the terms?
No simple answer to this - yes they can ask, but they probably shouldn't, as it might be seen as constructive dismissal.The terms will depend on a range of factors, but neither party can just make them up - they are generally written into a contract. The rights she has will depend on how long she's worked there - if it's less than 2 years she has only limited rights.
It sounds as if they (possibly) know they would be on shaky ground dismissing her so want her to pretend she wishes to leave of her own accord.
bacon11178 said:
- If she decides to pursue unfair dismissal or similar, how will this impact on her future employment?
Hard to guess the future - may depend on the industry etc.bacon11178 said:
- Can she use the internal emails as part of a disciplinary?
Possibly - BTW I was wondering why you had advised her to delete some e-mails?Whatever happens, it doesn't look as if she'll be staying at that employer for much longer.
Edited by V8forweekends on Thursday 12th March 01:06
uk66fastback said:
This all sounds pretty confusing ... is this your company - ? You mention your business partner ... ? At this firm? Or a separate company? Is this the MD you refer to? I suspect not.
I interpret it as the person being referred to having two jobs. Part time with the OP and another full time elsewhere. OP is trying to help her out with the issue at t'other place.bacon11178 said:
"I've been asked to resign" says one of my part-time staff, who happens to be the girlfriend of one of my friends, in regard to her full-time job.
So
Your p/t staff doesn't get on with her supervisor
She thinks she's more qualified than her supervisor
She thinks supervisor is picking on her unfairly
There seems to be some resentment about new supervisor getting a company car
Your p/t staff is considering legal action against her employer for a workplace injury
The "big boss" is trying to "manage her" out of he business
Would that be a fair summary?
Your p/t staff doesn't get on with her supervisor
She thinks she's more qualified than her supervisor
She thinks supervisor is picking on her unfairly
There seems to be some resentment about new supervisor getting a company car
Your p/t staff is considering legal action against her employer for a workplace injury
The "big boss" is trying to "manage her" out of he business
Would that be a fair summary?
Countdown said:
So
Your p/t staff doesn't get on with her supervisor
There seems to be some resentment about new supervisor getting a company car
Would that be a fair summary?
As I understand it, the OPs part-timer is being ordered by her full-time Employer to buy a new car at her own expense, in order to impress their clients.Your p/t staff doesn't get on with her supervisor
There seems to be some resentment about new supervisor getting a company car
Would that be a fair summary?
Tim
catman said:
As I understand it, the OPs part-timer is being ordered by her full-time Employer to buy a new car at her own expense, in order to impress their clients.
Tim
Ah ok - apols for misunderstanding.Tim
Boss is a cheeky git in that case and OP's P/T member of staff should have asked for either a company car or an Essential User Car Allowance
bacon11178 said:
My questions are this:
- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
She can talk to a union if she's a member of one. If she isn't then ACAS or an employment lawyer would be the best bet. Sometimes House insurance policies provide legal cover so that may be worth looking into.- Who should she talk to? I've told her to talk to my business partner's wife who is an employment lawyer, but who is currently on holiday. Is there a union or similar she can talk to now?
bacon11178 said:
- Can you be legally asked to resign and if so, who calls the terms?
Yes. They're called compromise agreements. Employer and employee agree a mutually beneficial solution and employee resigns. For example an ex-colleague (the Director of HR also known as the Beast of Belfast) agreed a compromise agreement of £10k plus a neutral reference after being accused of sexual and racial harassment and homophobic behaviour (against the chief exec).bacon11178 said:
- If she decides to pursue unfair dismissal or similar, how will this impact on her future employment?
Tricky one. It depends on the industry she works in and how close-knit it is.bacon11178 said:
- Can she use the internal emails as part of a disciplinary?
Do you mean as part of her defence if she is put through a discplinary process OR to support her case if she submits a grievance? In either case the answer is yes.To clarify, she works full time elsewhere. That is where she has a the issue.
She only works part-time for me to top up her income, where I've had no reason to fault her work ethic or quality.
The car mentioned is one that she arranged for herself after her boss told her to get a new one. It's on PCP from what she told me before. The new supervisor hasn't got a company car.
As I read between the lines, I think it's a case of she doesn't like having a less qualified supervisor and the supervisor is threatened by not being as qualified as her, so they clash.
Anyway, thanks to those who came up with good advice, I'll pass it on.
She only works part-time for me to top up her income, where I've had no reason to fault her work ethic or quality.
The car mentioned is one that she arranged for herself after her boss told her to get a new one. It's on PCP from what she told me before. The new supervisor hasn't got a company car.
As I read between the lines, I think it's a case of she doesn't like having a less qualified supervisor and the supervisor is threatened by not being as qualified as her, so they clash.
Anyway, thanks to those who came up with good advice, I'll pass it on.
bacon11178 said:
As I read between the lines, I think it's a case of she doesn't like having a less qualified supervisor and the supervisor is threatened by not being as qualified as her, so they clash.
Like it or not, this person is her line manager.Either way, she needs legal advice. Separately she should pursue the personal injury claim- no need for loyalty to this company.
How long has she worked there? If less than two years then AIUI she isn't due redundancy pay so this could be an ok deal considering the circumstances. Either way she needs to negotiate, particularly wrt the car, as trying to stay in a job where they don't want you is a recipe for stress and crap.
And once the cheque has cleared set a no win no fee jackal on them.
And once the cheque has cleared set a no win no fee jackal on them.
bacon11178 said:
Not much to update, she's tried to get an appointment with a local employment law specialist. She's also informed me that she's been given a meeting time at work, tomorrow, which doesn't give anyone much notice, but they are allowing her to bring a non-union witness.
Suggest she take a colleague who can just stay silent but take detailed notes. She should remain calm and neutral in manner. Don't volunteer any information. Just listen to what they have to say and then take advice. A lawyer will then help her conclude this, hopefully without the need to get to a tribunal. Bill said:
How long has she worked there? If less than two years then AIUI she isn't due redundancy pay so this could be an ok deal considering the circumstances. Either way she needs to negotiate, particularly wrt the car, as trying to stay in a job where they don't want you is a recipe for stress and crap.
And once the cheque has cleared set a no win no fee jackal on them.
She's been there two years and three months.And once the cheque has cleared set a no win no fee jackal on them.
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