Realities of giving someone a driving lesson.
Discussion
Was having a pleasant yarn with my mate about him recently taking out a learner driver (mentioned in my earlier thread). 1 weeks insurance, L plates, standard car (no dual controls), 21 year old girl with no previous driving experience. About an hour was spent just sat in the car to begin with, explaining what everything was/did, how to secure the car, how to start it up, adjusting mirrors, explaining blind spots etc etc.
After about 10 hours of driving practice over the week, a few things seems to have become a bit obvious...
Firstly, having dual controls fitted would be much cheaper than alloy wheels, tires, suspension bushes, track rods, the clutch, engine mounts and Vallium tablets. All of which get quite a bit of hammer.
The only controls you actually have, apart from shouting, is to grab the steering wheel and pull the handbrake on - both of which you do surprisingly often, with varying degrees of success.
Maintaining speed and insufficient steering input was also up there, along with not bothering to put the clutch in when pulling up. Overshooting junctions or stopping short is also there, along with going back into 1st instead of 3rd, or 2nd instead of 4th.
Most gear changes are performed, badly, by looking down at the gear stick and turning the steering wheel slightly right - quite fun.
Another thing is that after making a mistake, she tended to just let go of everything and shrug, regardless of the fact that the vehicle is still in motion.
Then there's "stalling panic" at junctions, getting flustered after trying to re-start while still in gear, then not applying enough throttle and letting the clutch out too quick - STALL.
I'm amazed he lasted 10 hours, but even his patience was tested when on the last day she was just erratic, and he ended the 'lesson' there and then.
My advice? don't take someone out unless they've had driving lessons from a professional, and even then ask the instructor if he/she thinks it'd be worthwhile at the moment.
After about 10 hours of driving practice over the week, a few things seems to have become a bit obvious...
Firstly, having dual controls fitted would be much cheaper than alloy wheels, tires, suspension bushes, track rods, the clutch, engine mounts and Vallium tablets. All of which get quite a bit of hammer.
The only controls you actually have, apart from shouting, is to grab the steering wheel and pull the handbrake on - both of which you do surprisingly often, with varying degrees of success.
Maintaining speed and insufficient steering input was also up there, along with not bothering to put the clutch in when pulling up. Overshooting junctions or stopping short is also there, along with going back into 1st instead of 3rd, or 2nd instead of 4th.
Most gear changes are performed, badly, by looking down at the gear stick and turning the steering wheel slightly right - quite fun.
Another thing is that after making a mistake, she tended to just let go of everything and shrug, regardless of the fact that the vehicle is still in motion.
Then there's "stalling panic" at junctions, getting flustered after trying to re-start while still in gear, then not applying enough throttle and letting the clutch out too quick - STALL.
I'm amazed he lasted 10 hours, but even his patience was tested when on the last day she was just erratic, and he ended the 'lesson' there and then.
My advice? don't take someone out unless they've had driving lessons from a professional, and even then ask the instructor if he/she thinks it'd be worthwhile at the moment.
I've been teaching my 16 year old daughter to drive, off road obviously. There's been no drama, no fuss, and no real problems. Before she has her first official lesson she will be able to start, stop, change gear, do a three point turn etc, should save a fair bit of time and money on lessons.
That's sounds very normal.
I gave lessons to all three of my daughters before I handed them over to the pro. I then gave them practice during their periods of professional instruction.
I didn't want to waste 10-20hrs of professional fees just to get the basic car control sorted and yet I was not qualified to take up to test standard. I think you're mate has already done the hard bit and there is no question that correcting all those issues just comes down to practice. Plus, I too experienced off days when it just didn't matter and the best outcome was to bin the 'lesson' and try again another time.
Perhaps that's just me so I can appreciate your comment about just let the ADI get it sorted but if you can give practice time then it is still well worth it.
I gave lessons to all three of my daughters before I handed them over to the pro. I then gave them practice during their periods of professional instruction.
I didn't want to waste 10-20hrs of professional fees just to get the basic car control sorted and yet I was not qualified to take up to test standard. I think you're mate has already done the hard bit and there is no question that correcting all those issues just comes down to practice. Plus, I too experienced off days when it just didn't matter and the best outcome was to bin the 'lesson' and try again another time.
Perhaps that's just me so I can appreciate your comment about just let the ADI get it sorted but if you can give practice time then it is still well worth it.
RYH64E said:
I've been teaching my 16 year old daughter to drive, off road obviously. There's been no drama, no fuss, and no real problems. Before she has her first official lesson she will be able to start, stop, change gear, do a three point turn etc, should save a fair bit of time and money on lessons.
I think that off road is a very good idea. No pressure from other drivers (some of which aren't considerate it seems), and less kerbs to wallop. I had a couple of lessons before being taken out. Just normal start up etc was done via instructor, then taken out just to build confidence and hone in on car control without actually having to pay £25 an hour to do so. I find a lot of being taken out by parents etc isn't as much as teaching the person how to drive, but more to aid with confidence and car control.
I think a lot of the problem which your friend is facing is the fact that the girl he is teaching has no invested interest in the car she is driving, therefore she isn't too bothered about the damage or mechanical strain her driving may cause. Either that or she just has zero interest in cars and driving. I have been in cars with people who have actual 0 interest in driving/cars and even after passing their tests they are terrifying to be passenger to.
If your friend is still braving it, I'm sure there are some places which allows you to hire a car with dual control for couple of hours at a time. A friend recently did this for his youngest and is loving it. Think it was at £12 for 2 hours (Excluding fuel), which I think is a bit of a bargain considering there's no added costs of adding onto his own insurance, the risk of having his car dinged and above all, not having poor driving adversely affecting the longevity of his clutch/gearbox/engine etc.
I think a lot of the problem which your friend is facing is the fact that the girl he is teaching has no invested interest in the car she is driving, therefore she isn't too bothered about the damage or mechanical strain her driving may cause. Either that or she just has zero interest in cars and driving. I have been in cars with people who have actual 0 interest in driving/cars and even after passing their tests they are terrifying to be passenger to.
If your friend is still braving it, I'm sure there are some places which allows you to hire a car with dual control for couple of hours at a time. A friend recently did this for his youngest and is loving it. Think it was at £12 for 2 hours (Excluding fuel), which I think is a bit of a bargain considering there's no added costs of adding onto his own insurance, the risk of having his car dinged and above all, not having poor driving adversely affecting the longevity of his clutch/gearbox/engine etc.
We let the driving instructor use his car for the first few lessons with ours, as ultimately he is familiar with it and the requirements for todays testing.
Once they had gotten used to being out we then took them in their own cars and were able to practice what they had been taught officially, rather than what we think is right.
First one passed first time with no minors.
Second one is still earning at the moment!
Once they had gotten used to being out we then took them in their own cars and were able to practice what they had been taught officially, rather than what we think is right.
First one passed first time with no minors.
Second one is still earning at the moment!
t and refused to do it againMy oldest (just 17) had a year learning with me teaching him before he hit the road. Meant he was able to get straight in and drive on the road with the instructor, no wasting time on basic car control.
My youngest is 15 and has had 2 years of the same and he's getting close to test standard already so should be nice and cheap/quick when the time comes
My youngest is 15 and has had 2 years of the same and he's getting close to test standard already so should be nice and cheap/quick when the time comes
I took my step daughter out on L plates after her instructor said she was capable of controlling the car without duel controls,
I didn't want to but the wife and her ex husband refused so it was left to me & I hated every single second of it!!
too much speed, not enough speed, hitting kerbs, roundabouts, oh Jesus the roundabouts!! Stalling with knob heads beeping behind then flying off in a cloud of tyre smoke when you've told her "give it a little more gas,....... your doing really well"
Christ I'm in a cold sweat writing this!
How the hell she passed I'll never know
Oh well only another two daughters to go, & at least I get a lift home from the pub now!
I didn't want to but the wife and her ex husband refused so it was left to me & I hated every single second of it!!
too much speed, not enough speed, hitting kerbs, roundabouts, oh Jesus the roundabouts!! Stalling with knob heads beeping behind then flying off in a cloud of tyre smoke when you've told her "give it a little more gas,....... your doing really well"
Christ I'm in a cold sweat writing this!
How the hell she passed I'll never know
Oh well only another two daughters to go, & at least I get a lift home from the pub now!
I've been an ADI for ten years but it's a long time since I had anything to do with learners. I don't recall using the duals all that much tbh & never felt the need for valium.
Over-instruction leads to a reliance on the instructor to control the situation and the learner to avoid responsibility for their actions. Then when it goes all tits up the 'instructor' can't control the situation, so blames the learner! Which seems strange to me given they have created that (lack of..) learning environment in the first place.
Over-instruction leads to a reliance on the instructor to control the situation and the learner to avoid responsibility for their actions. Then when it goes all tits up the 'instructor' can't control the situation, so blames the learner! Which seems strange to me given they have created that (lack of..) learning environment in the first place.
First off, buy a clunker for them to learn in, not your P&J!
I'd advocate getting them a block of lessons - the chap who taught my partner did a starter set of lessons which taught her the basics (although I did a little bit of tuition on the trading estate on the weekend with the gates shut!) then once she had some confidence and knew what she was doing I got her out in the car doing a lot of practice. I think the hours we put in there did wonders and cut down on the actual number of lessons she needed.
I'd advocate getting them a block of lessons - the chap who taught my partner did a starter set of lessons which taught her the basics (although I did a little bit of tuition on the trading estate on the weekend with the gates shut!) then once she had some confidence and knew what she was doing I got her out in the car doing a lot of practice. I think the hours we put in there did wonders and cut down on the actual number of lessons she needed.
Taught my gf to drive
she spend a few month learning with me, then about 10 hours with a qualified instructor over a couple of months, and passed her test first time
there were no issues like listed above, i very rarely had to assist with steering, don't think i ever had to touch the hand brake, other than in very early days preventing a roll back after a stall
i suspect most of the op or his possibly not imaginary friend's problems are down to either down to someone not really being cut out to teach someone to drive, or someone not cut out to learn to drive, or perhaps a combination of the 2
she spend a few month learning with me, then about 10 hours with a qualified instructor over a couple of months, and passed her test first time
there were no issues like listed above, i very rarely had to assist with steering, don't think i ever had to touch the hand brake, other than in very early days preventing a roll back after a stall
i suspect most of the op or his possibly not imaginary friend's problems are down to either down to someone not really being cut out to teach someone to drive, or someone not cut out to learn to drive, or perhaps a combination of the 2
No way would I take out a learner driver without dual controls. 
My first lesson, as far as I can remember, had me controlling the steering wheel and accelerator and brake, and the instructor controlling the clutch and changing gears and probably dabbing on the accelerator and brake to encourage me as needed. Didn't go through any of the stop/start jerking forwards thing that first time drivers do on TV (do they really do that in real life?) and very quickly got used to what it felt like to drive a car at a reasonable pace - so much so that on my first lesson, within 60 minutes, he had me driving through Worcester's one-way system at 5pm to pick up the next guy for his lesson.
When he moved onto me operating the clutch, it was a case of balancing what I had already been doing with my right foot with my left foot.
He obviously knew his method of teaching though, and if I was teaching someone I would be doing some research and making sure I knew exactly what I was going to teach that day, and how, and why.
One thing I wished I had gone through though, and it probably relates to the off-road stuff mentioned above, is manoeuvers. We went through the test ones (3-point turn, reverse round a corner etc) almost by numbers, even to the point where the instructor had bits of tape in the rear windscreen that I had to line up when reverse parking. It would have been great just to go somewhere for a bit of a drive around an obstacle course, or even a low speed go-where-you-want with some random reversing and turning, just to get used to how a car handles at that speed.
That and getting more 20 pences for the pneumatic Outrun machines on holidays.
My first lesson, as far as I can remember, had me controlling the steering wheel and accelerator and brake, and the instructor controlling the clutch and changing gears and probably dabbing on the accelerator and brake to encourage me as needed. Didn't go through any of the stop/start jerking forwards thing that first time drivers do on TV (do they really do that in real life?) and very quickly got used to what it felt like to drive a car at a reasonable pace - so much so that on my first lesson, within 60 minutes, he had me driving through Worcester's one-way system at 5pm to pick up the next guy for his lesson.
When he moved onto me operating the clutch, it was a case of balancing what I had already been doing with my right foot with my left foot.
He obviously knew his method of teaching though, and if I was teaching someone I would be doing some research and making sure I knew exactly what I was going to teach that day, and how, and why.
One thing I wished I had gone through though, and it probably relates to the off-road stuff mentioned above, is manoeuvers. We went through the test ones (3-point turn, reverse round a corner etc) almost by numbers, even to the point where the instructor had bits of tape in the rear windscreen that I had to line up when reverse parking. It would have been great just to go somewhere for a bit of a drive around an obstacle course, or even a low speed go-where-you-want with some random reversing and turning, just to get used to how a car handles at that speed.
That and getting more 20 pences for the pneumatic Outrun machines on holidays.
Mrs A is learning to drive - got her first lesson coming up tomorrow but prior to that we've been bumbling around in the shed I bought her and she's surprisingly competent after a few hours of this.
As mentioned previously, the car takes a bit of a pounding - clips the odd curb, not great at anticipating so plenty of late, harsh breaking. Not great at avoiding pot holes or slowing sufficiently for speed bumps.
Biggest issue for her previously was always getting the hang of manual gear boxes, so we've settled on the automatic route this time. It's great not having to worry about stalling/irate drivers etc as that really stressed last time around.
As mentioned previously, the car takes a bit of a pounding - clips the odd curb, not great at anticipating so plenty of late, harsh breaking. Not great at avoiding pot holes or slowing sufficiently for speed bumps.
Biggest issue for her previously was always getting the hang of manual gear boxes, so we've settled on the automatic route this time. It's great not having to worry about stalling/irate drivers etc as that really stressed last time around.
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