Bought a crashed car - where do I stand legally?
Discussion
Hi guys,
Recently bought a Fiesta ST from a used car dealer. Test drove it, seemed to be in perfect order so I bought it although it came with no warranty. I thought I did an HPI check on it, but I've just realised I did a check on another car, not this one. It comes back as being a possibly write off, but they're unsure as it had a private plate change. The dealer told me that it had never been crashed.
When driving at more than 85 MPH the car feels very unstable and has serious vibrations coming through the steering wheel, feels very dangerous (obviously on the test drive I didn't reach those speeds so I wouldn't of known). I didn't think much of it, maybe the tracking is a bit out or the wheels need balancing, no biggie. When cleaning the car today, I noticed the near side front panel gaps were odd compared to the other side, a lot closer together. Also noticed once cleaned up that the panels are a slightly different colour. Went over to my dad, he's convinced it has been in a small bump at some point which could be what is causing the car to become unstable at speed.
Going to book the car into a body shop this week so I can get a professional opinion on what's occurring, but if it does need some fairly major or expensive repairs, do I have an legal ground on the dealer? They have essentially sold me a car that has been crashed, even though they said it hasn't. I know they might not of known either, but before I bought it the dealer had extensive work done on it which makes me suspicious.
Any replies/advice would be appreciated.
Recently bought a Fiesta ST from a used car dealer. Test drove it, seemed to be in perfect order so I bought it although it came with no warranty. I thought I did an HPI check on it, but I've just realised I did a check on another car, not this one. It comes back as being a possibly write off, but they're unsure as it had a private plate change. The dealer told me that it had never been crashed.
When driving at more than 85 MPH the car feels very unstable and has serious vibrations coming through the steering wheel, feels very dangerous (obviously on the test drive I didn't reach those speeds so I wouldn't of known). I didn't think much of it, maybe the tracking is a bit out or the wheels need balancing, no biggie. When cleaning the car today, I noticed the near side front panel gaps were odd compared to the other side, a lot closer together. Also noticed once cleaned up that the panels are a slightly different colour. Went over to my dad, he's convinced it has been in a small bump at some point which could be what is causing the car to become unstable at speed.
Going to book the car into a body shop this week so I can get a professional opinion on what's occurring, but if it does need some fairly major or expensive repairs, do I have an legal ground on the dealer? They have essentially sold me a car that has been crashed, even though they said it hasn't. I know they might not of known either, but before I bought it the dealer had extensive work done on it which makes me suspicious.
Any replies/advice would be appreciated.
Petrolhead95 said:
Hi guys,
Recently bought a Fiesta ST from a used car dealer. Test drove it, seemed to be in perfect order so I bought it although it came with no warranty. I thought I did an HPI check on it, but I've just realised I did a check on another car, not this one. It comes back as being a possibly write off, but they're unsure as it had a private plate change. The dealer told me that it had never been crashed.
When driving at more than 85 MPH the car feels very unstable and has serious vibrations coming through the steering wheel, feels very dangerous (obviously on the test drive I didn't reach those speeds so I wouldn't of known). I didn't think much of it, maybe the tracking is a bit out or the wheels need balancing, no biggie. When cleaning the car today, I noticed the near side front panel gaps were odd compared to the other side, a lot closer together. Also noticed once cleaned up that the panels are a slightly different colour. Went over to my dad, he's convinced it has been in a small bump at some point which could be what is causing the car to become unstable at speed.
Going to book the car into a body shop this week so I can get a professional opinion on what's occurring, but if it does need some fairly major or expensive repairs, do I have an legal ground on the dealer? They have essentially sold me a car that has been crashed, even though they said it hasn't. I know they might not of known either, but before I bought it the dealer had extensive work done on it which makes me suspicious.
Any replies/advice would be appreciated.
Waits with popcorn.....nom nom nomRecently bought a Fiesta ST from a used car dealer. Test drove it, seemed to be in perfect order so I bought it although it came with no warranty. I thought I did an HPI check on it, but I've just realised I did a check on another car, not this one. It comes back as being a possibly write off, but they're unsure as it had a private plate change. The dealer told me that it had never been crashed.
When driving at more than 85 MPH the car feels very unstable and has serious vibrations coming through the steering wheel, feels very dangerous (obviously on the test drive I didn't reach those speeds so I wouldn't of known). I didn't think much of it, maybe the tracking is a bit out or the wheels need balancing, no biggie. When cleaning the car today, I noticed the near side front panel gaps were odd compared to the other side, a lot closer together. Also noticed once cleaned up that the panels are a slightly different colour. Went over to my dad, he's convinced it has been in a small bump at some point which could be what is causing the car to become unstable at speed.
Going to book the car into a body shop this week so I can get a professional opinion on what's occurring, but if it does need some fairly major or expensive repairs, do I have an legal ground on the dealer? They have essentially sold me a car that has been crashed, even though they said it hasn't. I know they might not of known either, but before I bought it the dealer had extensive work done on it which makes me suspicious.
Any replies/advice would be appreciated.
Unless it's a cat d or worse listed car, I'd say you've no chance on that score. I fail to see how hpi don't know or whoelse you can check with. Without a definitive answer on this you've nowhere to go.
An independent engineer report might show repair work but then lots of cars have, so unless the advert, receipt or something says 'no accidents' what can you prove, sales guy just needs to argue he said 'none to my knowledge' . However if the report says it's not roadworthy or a ringer etc then you obviously have a claim against not fit for purpose and the like.
I dare say if you'd checked the right car before you bought, you might not have bought it, but that was your mistake.
It's not something as simple as tracking and wheel balance?
More popcorn please...
An independent engineer report might show repair work but then lots of cars have, so unless the advert, receipt or something says 'no accidents' what can you prove, sales guy just needs to argue he said 'none to my knowledge' . However if the report says it's not roadworthy or a ringer etc then you obviously have a claim against not fit for purpose and the like.
I dare say if you'd checked the right car before you bought, you might not have bought it, but that was your mistake.
It's not something as simple as tracking and wheel balance?
More popcorn please...
You've basically got two seperate issues here
Firstly you feel you have been deceived into buying a previously accident damaged car
Secondly the car has minor mechanical and cosmetic defects.
My understanding is that unless you can prove and demonstrate that the car has been explicitly misrepresented by the dealer you have no comeback. You cannot prove this on two counts, firstly the HPI check was inconclusive and secondly you presumably don't have in writing the dealer's assertion that the car has never been involved in an accident.
With regard to the minor mechanical and cosmetic defects, you have bought an eight year old used car so imperfections are to be expected to an extent.
Even if you can prove that the car was involved in an accident you presumably cannot prove that the dealer was aware of it nor can you prove that the mechanical and cosmetic defects are due to that accident.
I am not a legal bod but I would guess that you have no particular grounds for legal action without documentary evidence as above.
If you are concerned that the car has been involved in a significant accident and has been repaired poorly to the extent of being in a dangerous and unsaleable condition, then an independent inspection should be your first course of action.
Firstly you feel you have been deceived into buying a previously accident damaged car
Secondly the car has minor mechanical and cosmetic defects.
My understanding is that unless you can prove and demonstrate that the car has been explicitly misrepresented by the dealer you have no comeback. You cannot prove this on two counts, firstly the HPI check was inconclusive and secondly you presumably don't have in writing the dealer's assertion that the car has never been involved in an accident.
With regard to the minor mechanical and cosmetic defects, you have bought an eight year old used car so imperfections are to be expected to an extent.
Even if you can prove that the car was involved in an accident you presumably cannot prove that the dealer was aware of it nor can you prove that the mechanical and cosmetic defects are due to that accident.
I am not a legal bod but I would guess that you have no particular grounds for legal action without documentary evidence as above.
If you are concerned that the car has been involved in a significant accident and has been repaired poorly to the extent of being in a dangerous and unsaleable condition, then an independent inspection should be your first course of action.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if it was crash repaired privately with no mention to an insurance company, would this make it invisible to any HPI reports?
Not sure if you would have a leg to stand on if that is the case as technically it hasn't actually been officially written off so on the face of it the dealer may be covered.
All of this of course is my personal opinion which is probably wrong anyway.
Not sure if you would have a leg to stand on if that is the case as technically it hasn't actually been officially written off so on the face of it the dealer may be covered.
All of this of course is my personal opinion which is probably wrong anyway.
DuraAce said:
Only write offs that are given a cat c, d, etc will be the on the HPI register won't they? . I've had a couple of cars that had 10k+ repair bills for accident damage. Neither were on the register.
That's what a write off is, otherwise it's just damaged repaired. There is no such thing as a 'write off' without a Cat marker on the HPI.If the car has been damaged and repaired in the past, the dealer can't possibly know this, when you buy a used car it is down to you to check you are happy with the condition before you buy it, pretty common sense.
If it has indeed been classed as a write off and the dealer has not informed a buyer explicitly before sale then they are on thin ice. It's just a piece of paper really but it does make a difference.
OP, get the tracking checked and the wheels balanced.
Also, could it be something like a RFT one side, and a non-RFT the other?
Regarding the paintwork, you've bought an 8 year old car, it's not going to be perfect.
It might have been bumped but repaired without being written off.
If at any point you were unsure, or (to me) if the HPI came back inconclusive I would've walked away, there are 1000's of Fiesta ST's about, some owned by the ilk, some by genuine enthusiasts.
Also, could it be something like a RFT one side, and a non-RFT the other?
Regarding the paintwork, you've bought an 8 year old car, it's not going to be perfect.
It might have been bumped but repaired without being written off.
If at any point you were unsure, or (to me) if the HPI came back inconclusive I would've walked away, there are 1000's of Fiesta ST's about, some owned by the ilk, some by genuine enthusiasts.
'Youth' desperate to own a Fiesta ST like his mates doesn't check car properly and buys a nail shocker.
Why on Earth would you buy a car from a dealer and accept no warranty other than it either being sold at a 'too good to be true' price or you bought the first one you saw?? Although my understanding of the SoG Act is that there is an automatic 3 month warranty that they legally have to give. Although how you prove that they knew it had been in an accident is anyone's guess
Why on Earth would you buy a car from a dealer and accept no warranty other than it either being sold at a 'too good to be true' price or you bought the first one you saw?? Although my understanding of the SoG Act is that there is an automatic 3 month warranty that they legally have to give. Although how you prove that they knew it had been in an accident is anyone's guess
mustdash said:
Although my understanding of the SoG Act is that there is an automatic 3 month warranty that they legally have to give.
Incorrect. Very often bandied around but not true.No warranty has To be given, but the SOGA does cover the sales of cars and is a fairly ambiguous set of rules that determine the quality of what is sold, it is not a blanket cover-all warranty that most people think it is.
Satisfactory quality, s 14(2)
[11] The quality of the goods sold must be satisfactory (prior to 1994, this provision required 'merchantable' quality; this requirement has been retained in most Commonwealth versions of the Act). The Act provides an objective test to determine satisfactory quality; the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price, description and any other relevant factors.[12] The courts have identified certain factors that may raise or lower the expectation of satisfaction. Second hand goods, per Bernstien v. Pamson Motors Ltd.,[13] will attract a lower expectation. On the other hand goods of a reputable brand may attract a higher expectation, the judge in Bernstien used the example of a small ping on a Rolls-Royce being unsatisfactory. 'Other relevant factors' may include advertising in the case of consumer contracts.[14]
Fitness for purpose, s14(3)
If the buyer expressly or impliedly makes his purpose for the goods known to the seller, the seller is obliged to make sure the goods provided are fit for that purpose, if it is reasonable for the buyer to rely on the seller's expertise. An example of the application of this provision can be found in Godley v Perry[15]
Edited by Butter Face on Wednesday 22 April 08:19
mustdash said:
Although my understanding of the SoG Act is that there is an automatic 3 month warranty that they legally have to give.
Nope. No such thing.SOGA doesn't just apply to cars, or even apply to cars in any different way to anything else. It's just that cars are the most likely expensive-used-goods we ever buy, so that's where we're most likely to come up against SOGA for used goods.
It's really very simple - everything sold in the course of business must be fit for purpose, and free from inherent faults. If there are faults, then the retailer must remedy them - repair, replace or refund in that order.
The customer's expectations are tempered by realism. Wear and tear is automatically excluded. For an older car that's priced low for the age, the expectations are lower than for a near-new one at main-dealer-approved-used price.
For a lower-price-range 8yo Fiesta ST, is it realistic to expect that it's never had even minor panel damage? No.
OTOH, the trader can't lie. He can't say "No, it's never ever ever been bent" - not least because he doesn't KNOW. He can say he's HPI'd it, and it came back clear, if that's true. He can say he hasn't seen any evidence it's ever been bent, if that's true. He can say that, if it has, he believes it's been repaired well, if that's true.
Caveat emptor applies. Do your own research. Test drive it. Inspect it carefully. HPI it. Do those badly, and it's your own daft fault. SOGA does not provide any remedy for buyer's remorse.
If there are pre-existing faults, then they may come to light after purchase - in which case, SOGA protects you, within those expectations. If you're a kid that's bought a middle-aged chav-chariot, and you troll back a week or three later with "It vibrates and pulls", but it didn't on the test drive, then be prepared for extreme cynicism and accusations that you've just bounced it off a kerb yourself. Occam's Razor applies.
Jonsv8 said:
It's not something as simple as tracking and wheel balance?
I don't know. I don't want to spend money on getting tracking and balancing done just for it to still be the same.MercScot said:
Or simply stop driving over 85mph?
Why would I do that? I've bought the car so I can use it on track days as well as us it daily. Petrolhead95 said:
Jonsv8 said:
It's not something as simple as tracking and wheel balance?
I don't know. I don't want to spend money on getting tracking and balancing done just for it to still be the same.MercScot said:
Or simply stop driving over 85mph?
Why would I do that? I've bought the car so I can use it on track days as well as us it daily. Just get the tracking done, then you can eliminate it being an issue - then go back to the dealer.
sc0tt said:
Petrolhead95 said:
MyCarCheck. Reg is SA57XLE
CAT B not to be put back on road.Category B: body shell should be crushed. Signifies extensive damage, although some parts are salvageable. Should never re-appear on road, although reclaimed parts can be used in other road-going vehicles
The dealer has some explaining to do.
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