Landlord problem - disrepair
Discussion
Looking for some advice RE: a potential Abatement (refund) or partial refund of rent.
Ill try and keep it short and to the point:
Moved into new Maisonette which is above a Pharmacy on 25th Feb 2015. From day 1 of moving in the Kitchen Waste pipe from the Sink/Washing Machine is blocked, brand new washing machine used it once, flooded my whole kitchen, cannot even wash up 2 plates without overflowing. this was reported every other day via phone calls to letting agent.
2 Weeks later, Plumber arrives, tells me this has been going on for nearly 5 years because "the landlord doesnt want to pay for it to be fixed, as it goes through the Pharmacy's ceiling below" and that the waste pipe is an old Cast pipe which is collapsing/blocked and needs replacing. He pours some industrial acid down the sink and its OK *still not perfect but acceptable*
2 days later, the sink is blocked again, and no i havent poured oil or used my washing machine. Repeated daily phone calls to letting agent who says "permission is being sought to get the pipe replaced" this continues for 6 weeks with no progress (Have records of over 40 calls to estate agent in 6 week period). Meanwhile having to use Laundrette and eat takeaways constantly due to lack of washing up facilities.
Last thursday, plumber comes back and pours more acid down the sink, this then eats through the pipe in the pharmacy's ceiling and stinking eggy acid water is everywhere in the shop. Pharmacy rings emergency plumber and the whole pipework from my flat, through the shop and out to the soil stack is replaced in about 90 minutes!!!!
So i have had to put up with no kitchen for over 8 weeks, when it was a 90 minute fix. I beleive i should be offered a rent reduction/partial refund for the lack of usage ive had in a critical part of my flat. Landlord has basically told me to do one and im not getting a penny.
What is the next step?
TLDR:
Moved in, sink was blocked when moved in, reported for 8 weeks before pipe burst, miraculously fixed in 90minutes, landlord doesnt think i should get a rent reduction/partial refund for the drama/lack of use of my kitchen. What next?
Ill try and keep it short and to the point:
Moved into new Maisonette which is above a Pharmacy on 25th Feb 2015. From day 1 of moving in the Kitchen Waste pipe from the Sink/Washing Machine is blocked, brand new washing machine used it once, flooded my whole kitchen, cannot even wash up 2 plates without overflowing. this was reported every other day via phone calls to letting agent.
2 Weeks later, Plumber arrives, tells me this has been going on for nearly 5 years because "the landlord doesnt want to pay for it to be fixed, as it goes through the Pharmacy's ceiling below" and that the waste pipe is an old Cast pipe which is collapsing/blocked and needs replacing. He pours some industrial acid down the sink and its OK *still not perfect but acceptable*
2 days later, the sink is blocked again, and no i havent poured oil or used my washing machine. Repeated daily phone calls to letting agent who says "permission is being sought to get the pipe replaced" this continues for 6 weeks with no progress (Have records of over 40 calls to estate agent in 6 week period). Meanwhile having to use Laundrette and eat takeaways constantly due to lack of washing up facilities.
Last thursday, plumber comes back and pours more acid down the sink, this then eats through the pipe in the pharmacy's ceiling and stinking eggy acid water is everywhere in the shop. Pharmacy rings emergency plumber and the whole pipework from my flat, through the shop and out to the soil stack is replaced in about 90 minutes!!!!
So i have had to put up with no kitchen for over 8 weeks, when it was a 90 minute fix. I beleive i should be offered a rent reduction/partial refund for the lack of usage ive had in a critical part of my flat. Landlord has basically told me to do one and im not getting a penny.
What is the next step?
TLDR:
Moved in, sink was blocked when moved in, reported for 8 weeks before pipe burst, miraculously fixed in 90minutes, landlord doesnt think i should get a rent reduction/partial refund for the drama/lack of use of my kitchen. What next?
If he says no you could sue him, but that's it.
In an ideal world you'd write and give notice along the lines of:
XYZ is broken, and has been for X days. This is a breach of the tenancy agreement. I am being prevented in enjoying the property because of this, and I am encountering Y additional costs.
If XYZ is not fixed by X I must ask for these costs to be covered, and in addition to this I would suggest that a X reduction in rent is suitable recompense for the loss of amenity I have suffered.
That said, in this case if the losses we are talking about are modest, it's not worth any forcible action to recover them.
In an ideal world you'd write and give notice along the lines of:
XYZ is broken, and has been for X days. This is a breach of the tenancy agreement. I am being prevented in enjoying the property because of this, and I am encountering Y additional costs.
If XYZ is not fixed by X I must ask for these costs to be covered, and in addition to this I would suggest that a X reduction in rent is suitable recompense for the loss of amenity I have suffered.
That said, in this case if the losses we are talking about are modest, it's not worth any forcible action to recover them.
Thanks for the reply Justin, very helpful.
If i was to actually itemise every expense this whole ordeal has cost me (including time off of work to wait for non-existant plumbers etc) then it would be well over £2000. However I think i have been reasonable and asked for a months rent worth of deduction, which could even be spread over 3 months to stop the landlord being in minus with their Mortgage. Which again i was told to do one.
Im getting some very conflicting advice from different people, some saying dont pay the rent, wait 3 months for a section 8, goto court and show the disrepair and lack of compensation and win... that seems flawed though, other people telling me to take it small claims court.. etc
If i was to actually itemise every expense this whole ordeal has cost me (including time off of work to wait for non-existant plumbers etc) then it would be well over £2000. However I think i have been reasonable and asked for a months rent worth of deduction, which could even be spread over 3 months to stop the landlord being in minus with their Mortgage. Which again i was told to do one.
Im getting some very conflicting advice from different people, some saying dont pay the rent, wait 3 months for a section 8, goto court and show the disrepair and lack of compensation and win... that seems flawed though, other people telling me to take it small claims court.. etc
You know it's LL like this that really hack me off.
The boiler packed up in our tenant's house. Our plumber was round the next day, system replaced within a week and we offered the tenant a refund of part of their rent due to the hassle. Not all of us are tw@ts.
Sounds like your LL is a bell end. Good luck with it.
The boiler packed up in our tenant's house. Our plumber was round the next day, system replaced within a week and we offered the tenant a refund of part of their rent due to the hassle. Not all of us are tw@ts.
Sounds like your LL is a bell end. Good luck with it.
buzzeh123 said:
Thanks for the reply Justin, very helpful.
If i was to actually itemise every expense this whole ordeal has cost me (including time off of work to wait for non-existant plumbers etc) then it would be well over £2000. However I think i have been reasonable and asked for a months rent worth of deduction, which could even be spread over 3 months to stop the landlord being in minus with their Mortgage. Which again i was told to do one.
Im getting some very conflicting advice from different people, some saying dont pay the rent, wait 3 months for a section 8, goto court and show the disrepair and lack of compensation and win... that seems flawed though, other people telling me to take it small claims court.. etc
Don't not pay the rent. That will get you in more trouble and just muddy the situation.If i was to actually itemise every expense this whole ordeal has cost me (including time off of work to wait for non-existant plumbers etc) then it would be well over £2000. However I think i have been reasonable and asked for a months rent worth of deduction, which could even be spread over 3 months to stop the landlord being in minus with their Mortgage. Which again i was told to do one.
Im getting some very conflicting advice from different people, some saying dont pay the rent, wait 3 months for a section 8, goto court and show the disrepair and lack of compensation and win... that seems flawed though, other people telling me to take it small claims court.. etc
The problem is that if you out of the blue ask for £800 you'll get told to do one.
If you send photocopies of laundry receipts, milage to get there, parking etc, these are definite sums that are much harder to deflect.
How would the £2000 break down? Is the majority of this direct costs?
gonzales said:
You know it's LL like this that really hack me off.
The boiler packed up in our tenant's house. Our plumber was round the next day, system replaced within a week and we offered the tenant a refund of part of their rent due to the hassle. Not all of us are tw@ts.
Sounds like your LL is a bell end. Good luck with it.
Thats my exact feelings on it, even so much as im willing to go down the small claims route even if i only break-even just to teach her a lesson (LL is a woman FYI)The boiler packed up in our tenant's house. Our plumber was round the next day, system replaced within a week and we offered the tenant a refund of part of their rent due to the hassle. Not all of us are tw@ts.
Sounds like your LL is a bell end. Good luck with it.
While this ordeal was going on our Boiler also packed up, and parts would take "4 days to arrive", i had to kick off in the estate agents refusing to leave untill they found me alternative accomadation for 2 hours before they accepted they had to re-house me by law!
Its just really frustrating when i know if i was to break my tenancy agreement for any reason (smoking etc) they would try to evict me instantly, they are in breach of contract with me and its "oh well get on with it"
Hate how unbalanced it is.
JustinP1 said:
Don't not pay the rent. That will get you in more trouble and just muddy the situation.
The problem is that if you out of the blue ask for £800 you'll get told to do one.
If you send photocopies of laundry receipts, milage to get there, parking etc, these are definite sums that are much harder to deflect.
How would the £2000 break down? Is the majority of this direct costs?
Ive had 6 days off work dealing with this (which i can prove from work) and im on ~£130 a dayThe problem is that if you out of the blue ask for £800 you'll get told to do one.
If you send photocopies of laundry receipts, milage to get there, parking etc, these are definite sums that are much harder to deflect.
How would the £2000 break down? Is the majority of this direct costs?
Missus has had 4 days off work dealing with this and is on ~£110 a day
Laundrette costs: £5 per wash £3 per dry (id have to ask the missus as this is her department but i think she does around 4 loads a week) £8x4x8= £256
Cost of eating out everynight (hard to quantify as would have to eat anyway, but its definately more expensive going out to eat than buying a weekly shop and cooking it)
Theres more to add but i cant think of it now.
MitchT said:
I once thought it would be good if someone did a site like Trip Advisor, but for rental properties. This thread reminds me of said thought.
Like this?buzzeh123 said:
JustinP1 said:
Don't not pay the rent. That will get you in more trouble and just muddy the situation.
The problem is that if you out of the blue ask for £800 you'll get told to do one.
If you send photocopies of laundry receipts, milage to get there, parking etc, these are definite sums that are much harder to deflect.
How would the £2000 break down? Is the majority of this direct costs?
Ive had 6 days off work dealing with this (which i can prove from work) and im on ~£130 a dayThe problem is that if you out of the blue ask for £800 you'll get told to do one.
If you send photocopies of laundry receipts, milage to get there, parking etc, these are definite sums that are much harder to deflect.
How would the £2000 break down? Is the majority of this direct costs?
Missus has had 4 days off work dealing with this and is on ~£110 a day
Laundrette costs: £5 per wash £3 per dry (id have to ask the missus as this is her department but i think she does around 4 loads a week) £8x4x8= £256
Cost of eating out everynight (hard to quantify as would have to eat anyway, but its definately more expensive going out to eat than buying a weekly shop and cooking it)
Theres more to add but i cant think of it now.
However, when or if these losses become significant it would be expected for the other party to put the party in breach on notice of that breach and warn them of the costs incurred.
The comeback that the landlord would have is that they did not know that you were both taking time off work each time. If you had warned them of your intention to take time off work and to charge the Landlord for it, it could be argued that they would have acted in a different way in order to minimise those costs had you have warned them.
In terms of the laundry costs, these are similar, however, more justifiable as the landlord must know you have no means of washing your clothes. However, receipts and proof would make this an easier claim.
You may be advised by others to fire off a claim, not pay your rent or whatever, but you must be pragmatic.
There's no point in suing someone unless you are going to win, and winning puts you in a better position. For example, if you get kicked out at the end of your fixed term in spite then you've cut your nose off to spite your face.
My gut feeling is that the laundry costs may be covered by the landlord but not the time off work. It would depend on the facts though and how they were presented. It's not the landlords responsibility to act immediately, but to act in a timely fashion. If they have sat on their hands, that's one thing, however if they've encountered problems, that another.
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