Disputing a Speeding Ticket

[jms700]

Hello,

My Girlfriend has received a speeding ticket stated as traveling at 41 mph in a 30 zone.

I have replied to the police requesting calibration and training information for the equipment used, and received a letter back with all the information i asked for.

I received a calibration report for a LTI 20-20 ultraLyte 1000 from a date 4 months before the incident which i found a little odd.

after going through the user manual for the piece of equipment in question, the manufacturer advises a daily calibration of the equipment before each use, which wouldn't cover the calibration info i have been sent,

Do i have grounds to contest the ticket or am i clutching at straws here ?


Thanks for the help,

James

[Jonno02]

Chalk and cheese, but as a medical researcher, if I used equipment that was calibrated 4 months ago, I'd lose my job. At the very least, I've be pushing for a monthly calibration standard. If the manufacturer states calibrate before use, then there's a lot of room for the equipment to lose calibration in a 4 month time period.

Until you actually calibrate equipment, you don't appreciate how much readings can wander even from a day-to-day basis.

[SVTRick]

Standard equipment used for confined space entry, gas monitoring, oxygen level etc.
Calibration every six months, like lifting equipment used for access.

Think you will find what they have sent you is the required periodic test certificate.

Tell her suck up and take the points and learn from it

[SS2.]

jms700 said:

Do I have grounds to contest the ticket or am i clutching at straws here ?

Very much the latter.

Importantly, has the information requested on the s.172 form been supplied and returned within 28 days from when the notice was received ? Note that failing to confirm the driver details within this time window could see the addressee in the frame for 6 points, a fine, court costs, etc..

Edited by SS2. on Thursday 4th June 21:30

[Elroy Blue]

Calibrated by manufacturer once a year. Certificate to prove, which is what is provided on request.

Operator performs self test/check and calibrates against measured distance before and after use. Time is usually noted in notebook or on ticket

[flemke]

Elroy Blue said:

Calibrated by manufacturer once a year. Certificate to prove, which is what is provided on request.

Operator performs self test/check and calibrates against measured distance before and after use. Time is usually noted in notebook or on ticket

For the daily calibration, are the Police not obliged, when requested, to tell the respondent whether it was done?

[Elroy Blue]

If you go to court, it will be in his/her statement

[Aretnap]

flemke said:

For the daily calibration, are the Police not obliged, when requested, to tell the respondent whether it was done?

They're not obliged to tell the respondent anything at all unless/until the case actually goes to court. That would mean the OP's GF would have to turn down any offer of a speed awareness course or fixed penalty and risking the higher fines and costs associated with a court appearance on the off-chance that they hadn't done their daily checks. Not really a good idea unless she has a lot of spare money that she doesn't mind throwing away.

[jms700]

Thanks for all the replies, looks like we will just pay and take it,

were just checking our options,

thanks again

[flemke]

flemke said:

For the daily calibration, are the Police not obliged, when requested, to tell the respondent whether it was done?

Elroy Blue said:

If you go to court, it will be in his/her statement

Aretnap said:

They're not obliged to tell the respondent anything at all unless/until the case actually goes to court. That would mean the OP's GF would have to turn down any offer of a speed awareness course or fixed penalty and risking the higher fines and costs associated with a court appearance on the off-chance that they hadn't done their daily checks. Not really a good idea unless she has a lot of spare money that she doesn't mind throwing away.

Thanks for the explanations.

The way it works does not seem quite fair: if in fact the device was not calibrated (uncommon, but not unheard-of), the defendant has to go take the risk of going to court in order to discover that.
It would seem fairer if the Police (or camera partnership) were simply to state up front that there had been no calibration and therefore the NIP was being withdrawn.

Edited by flemke on Thursday 4th June 21:51

[Terminator X]

flemke said:

Thanks for the explanations.

The way it works does not seem quite fair: if in fact the device was not calibrated (uncommon, but not unheard-of), the defendant has to go take the risk of going to court in order to discover that.
It would seem fairer if the Police (or camera partnership) were simply to state up front that there had been no calibration and therefore the NIP was being withdrawn.

Edited by flemke on Thursday 4th June 21:51

Welcome to the UK

TX.

[lbc]

jms700 said:

Do i have grounds to contest the ticket or am i clutching at straws here ?

What speed did your 'girlfriend' think she was doing?

[Octoposse]

flemke said:

. . . if in fact the device was not calibrated (uncommon, but not unheard-of), the defendant has to go take the risk of going to court in order to discover that.

Beware the term 'calibration'.

The device is calibrated annually by the manufacturer. What is done at the start and end of the shift is checking the 'aim' (ie is the device actually pointing at the car the operator thinks it is) and the distance - there'll be a 30m range painted mark in the police station car park.

[HantsRat]

The certificate provided covers its use for a whole year. Each police officer before taking out a laser gun will perform Speed/Distance and alignment checks in the back yard of the police station. This takes 5 seconds and the time is noted in their note book.

You have no chance, Pay up.

[Type R Tom]

People pushing daily calibration, how could anything be calibrated by the manufacture on a daily basis? I use a tuning folk for ours, it has never been calibrated and is never wrong but we aren’t issuing tickets.

Even if it was slightly out, doubt it would be 11 mph out or 6mph over the ACPO guildlines.

[Durzel]

flemke said:

Thanks for the explanations.

The way it works does not seem quite fair: if in fact the device was not calibrated (uncommon, but not unheard-of), the defendant has to go take the risk of going to court in order to discover that.

I don't see how it's unfair.

You either believe you didn't commit the offence, or you don't.

Once you enter a plea and go to court you have access to the evidence that is going to be used against you.

It's not supposed to be a fishing expedition to work out whether you should admit guilt or not. "Calibration cert ok? Damn, how about the training? That too? Um what about whether he was wearing hi-vis?..." etc

People can be found not guilty due to defective paperwork, or whatever, but the point is you either believe you were doing the speed alleged or you don't. If you think you probably were you can still plead NG and put your arguments across, however flimsy they might be, so you're not disadvantaged at any point.

[HantsRat]

You would know if it's out from the checks before you take the laser out. If there is a issue, then you send it back for and the calibrate it again.

[flemke]

HantsRat said:

The certificate provided covers its use for a whole year. Each police officer before taking out a laser gun will perform Speed/Distance and alignment checks in the back yard of the police station. This takes 5 seconds and the time is noted in their note book.

You have no chance, Pay up.

I think the confusion is the difference between annual "calibration" and daily "speed and alignment checks".

I believe that the court requires annual calibration in order for an allegation to be proved.

Does the court similarly require that there had been a daily speed and alignment check?

[HantsRat]

flemke said:

I think the confusion is the difference between annual "calibration" and daily "speed and alignment checks".

I believe that the court requires annual calibration in order for an allegation to be proved.

Does the court similarly require that there had been a daily speed and alignment check?

It's not a legal requirement no, but it does help if the defence question whether the speed gun could have been faulty on that specific day.

You won't find an officer who takes the gun out without completing the daily checks. Most even carry out a 2nd alignment check once at the site they are going to enforce too.

[GreatGranny]

Instead of looking at ways of getting away with it why doesn't your girlfriend take a little more care when driving in a 30 limit.

Its not as though it was a couple of mph over!

When I got ticket for 56 in a 50 at no point did I think of ways of getting off.
I knew I was speeding so I paid up (Speed Awareness Course).