Hammersmith and Fulham PCN
Discussion
These idiots are driving me nuts.
15th Feb I sell a motorcycle as I wasn't using it. As it's a quick(sih) bike I not only get the buyer to date the receipt but also put a time on it just in case. Documents completed and sent to DVLA, tax refund received as well as confirmation from DVLA re change of keeper (which I still have).
Fast forward 2 months I get a PCN for an illegal u-turn. Checking the date and time it's literally 3 hours after I've sold the bike to the new owner. I complete the documents and provide a copy of the (signed, dated and timed) receipt as evidence that it wasn't me and think no more about it.
1 month later I get another form, asking for the same data again but on a different form. I resist the urge to tell them to f
k off and complete it, as well as provide another copy of the (signed, dated and timed) receipt as proof.
Last week while I was away on business I got ANOTHER letter - this time not even signed by anyone, just with a scrawl at the bottom - saying that 'it's my responsibility to tell the DVLA when I sell a vehicle' and they require written evidence from my insurance company about when the policy was cancelled.
Frankly, I'm pretty fecking annoyed about this - they've not even provided a SAE, let alone any contact details so I can call them. I don't have any evidence about when the insurance was cancelled as it was all on the phone. They've given me 14 days to respond - I got back from the US at 6am today and leave for Italy at 5am tomorrow (Sunday!) so I can't even get any info from the insurance company (and that's assuming I can remember who the hell they are). The change of ownership confirmation from the DVLA is dated 24th Feb as that's when it was printed.
Anything I can do about these twits? Guess I'm going to have to write to them again to explain, but why they can't just ask the DVLA about the change of owner date I don't know!
15th Feb I sell a motorcycle as I wasn't using it. As it's a quick(sih) bike I not only get the buyer to date the receipt but also put a time on it just in case. Documents completed and sent to DVLA, tax refund received as well as confirmation from DVLA re change of keeper (which I still have).
Fast forward 2 months I get a PCN for an illegal u-turn. Checking the date and time it's literally 3 hours after I've sold the bike to the new owner. I complete the documents and provide a copy of the (signed, dated and timed) receipt as evidence that it wasn't me and think no more about it.
1 month later I get another form, asking for the same data again but on a different form. I resist the urge to tell them to f
k off and complete it, as well as provide another copy of the (signed, dated and timed) receipt as proof.Last week while I was away on business I got ANOTHER letter - this time not even signed by anyone, just with a scrawl at the bottom - saying that 'it's my responsibility to tell the DVLA when I sell a vehicle' and they require written evidence from my insurance company about when the policy was cancelled.
Frankly, I'm pretty fecking annoyed about this - they've not even provided a SAE, let alone any contact details so I can call them. I don't have any evidence about when the insurance was cancelled as it was all on the phone. They've given me 14 days to respond - I got back from the US at 6am today and leave for Italy at 5am tomorrow (Sunday!) so I can't even get any info from the insurance company (and that's assuming I can remember who the hell they are). The change of ownership confirmation from the DVLA is dated 24th Feb as that's when it was printed.
Anything I can do about these twits? Guess I'm going to have to write to them again to explain, but why they can't just ask the DVLA about the change of owner date I don't know!
Mr Scruff said:
Last week while I was away on business I got ANOTHER letter - this time not even signed by anyone, just with a scrawl at the bottom - saying that 'it's my responsibility to tell the DVLA when I sell a vehicle' and they require written evidence from my insurance company about when the policy was cancelled.
You have already complied with that obligation as can be proven by the confirmation letter from the DVLA. You could have sold the vehicle on a Saturday evening and not been able to notify the insurance company until the following Monday, so I don't see how that adds anything to the case. Furthermore, you could have simply bought another vehicle and notified the change in which case the same policy would remain in force.ISTM that the brainless
in the Town Hall are so desperate for your cash that they are clutching at any straw to get it. Mr Scruff said:
Anything I can do about these twits? Guess I'm going to have to write to them again to explain, but why they can't just ask the DVLA about the change of owner date I don't know!
The date alone will prove nothing. It is the time that is crucial. Well done for getting your paperwork ducks in a row. Tell the idiots in the town hall to occupy their time in a more productive manner and stop wasting yours. If they won't back down the matter will probably have to be decided by an appeal to PATAS.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not so.London local authorities have had jurisdiction over traffic sign violations for ages - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/...
Implementation is on the relevant appointed day - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
See above.Strangely it was an illegal u-turn that kicked all this off. Seems a bit harsh on a motorbike on a Sunday afternoon but them's the breaks I guess.
Have written them a detailed letter pointing out the time and date on the receipt, as well as enclosing both a copy of it and the DVLA confirmation. I'm so thankful that I did keep all the paperwork in such good order, I've not been so disciplined in the past! I even joked with the buyer about my putting the time on the receipt, warning him that the bike could encourage hooliganism....
I fly out of the UK again tomorrow morning so registered post is going to be an issue but will post via standard first class meantime; got a copy of everything I've sent so can easily send again on my return. Feeling vaguely superior due to keeping the letter polite and to the point - much more of this and I can feel my patience being tested though! Just the inclusion of a name on the letter and a SAE would be well received.
Thanks both for feedback, it's always good to get some context to ensure it's not just me!
Have written them a detailed letter pointing out the time and date on the receipt, as well as enclosing both a copy of it and the DVLA confirmation. I'm so thankful that I did keep all the paperwork in such good order, I've not been so disciplined in the past! I even joked with the buyer about my putting the time on the receipt, warning him that the bike could encourage hooliganism....
I fly out of the UK again tomorrow morning so registered post is going to be an issue but will post via standard first class meantime; got a copy of everything I've sent so can easily send again on my return. Feeling vaguely superior due to keeping the letter polite and to the point - much more of this and I can feel my patience being tested though! Just the inclusion of a name on the letter and a SAE would be well received.
Thanks both for feedback, it's always good to get some context to ensure it's not just me!
That should hardly come as a surprise. H&F are a bunch of desperate incompetent money-grabbing ts who seem to inhabit an alternative universe. Is this the rejection of a formal challenge you made to a NtK or are you still at the prelimnary stage? If it's the former, the LA should have sent you a form and details of how to appeal to an independent adjudicator - http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/directory/transport_and_str...
On the basis of the evidence you say you have it is 99% certain that it will get thrown out by PATAS.
Just follow due process.
s who seem to inhabit an alternative universe. Is this the rejection of a formal challenge you made to a NtK or are you still at the prelimnary stage? If it's the former, the LA should have sent you a form and details of how to appeal to an independent adjudicator - http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/directory/transport_and_str...On the basis of the evidence you say you have it is 99% certain that it will get thrown out by PATAS.
Just follow due process.
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