Running a red light, for a blue light.
Discussion
I think this has been covered before so apologies.
Sat in traffic approaching a main traffic light junction to a town centre. Cop car comes down the middle with lights and sirens. Most cars including myself able to move over to let him through. He gets to the front where a Citroën van is at the stop line unable to move over.
The police car then proceeds to use his horn repeatedly until the van moves forwarding across, over the stop line with all 4 wheels, and so the cop passes him and goes over the junction.
The lights at the junction all have cameras on top.
My understanding is that it's never legal to cross a red light stop line even for blue lights, but not many people seem to know that, assuming the 'right thing' is always to give way. With that in mind, was the cop in the wrong for using his horn to make to van cross the line rather than just waiting 10-15 seconds for a green?
Sat in traffic approaching a main traffic light junction to a town centre. Cop car comes down the middle with lights and sirens. Most cars including myself able to move over to let him through. He gets to the front where a Citroën van is at the stop line unable to move over.
The police car then proceeds to use his horn repeatedly until the van moves forwarding across, over the stop line with all 4 wheels, and so the cop passes him and goes over the junction.
The lights at the junction all have cameras on top.
My understanding is that it's never legal to cross a red light stop line even for blue lights, but not many people seem to know that, assuming the 'right thing' is always to give way. With that in mind, was the cop in the wrong for using his horn to make to van cross the line rather than just waiting 10-15 seconds for a green?
AMST09 said:
My understanding was only police cars can force you to cross a red light
Whilst I'm sure thats how it should work, Ive appealed against it for moving for an ambulance on blues and its been accepted.IMO, i think you'd have to have your appeal reviewed by a real hard ass for moving for any emergency service on a blue light run.
You don't need the stress and aggravation, having got a ticket, of not knowing whether your appeal will be accepted. For some people, merely getting the ticket can be cause for them to be suspended from their jobs. This is not how should be, but there is a presumption of "guilty until proven innocent" in these sort of cases.
This is entirely the fault of the police and the authorities for refusing to use a common sense approach and assuming the ordinary motorist is responsible for absolutely everything unless an investigation proves otherwise.
Accordingly - since that's the system they clearly want in place - if I'm in a position where moving out of the way of an emergency vehicle involves going through a red light, I simply don't. It's as simple as that. I'm neither qualified nor authorised in law to make the decision to do that. It's my license, my job and my livelihood at stake, not theirs. If they don't like it - tough. They need to provide better protections in law to stop ordinary people being disadvantaged and potentially having their lives ruined by such situations.
I should add - I'll get out of the way if I can do so without crossing the white stop line, or breaking any other laws they now enforce with unchallengeable fixed penalties. If I can't, then I won't. I'm not authorised to break the law and the emergency vehicles will have to find another way past, or they can get out and move my car themselves which I'll video them doing.
This is entirely the fault of the police and the authorities for refusing to use a common sense approach and assuming the ordinary motorist is responsible for absolutely everything unless an investigation proves otherwise.
Accordingly - since that's the system they clearly want in place - if I'm in a position where moving out of the way of an emergency vehicle involves going through a red light, I simply don't. It's as simple as that. I'm neither qualified nor authorised in law to make the decision to do that. It's my license, my job and my livelihood at stake, not theirs. If they don't like it - tough. They need to provide better protections in law to stop ordinary people being disadvantaged and potentially having their lives ruined by such situations.
I should add - I'll get out of the way if I can do so without crossing the white stop line, or breaking any other laws they now enforce with unchallengeable fixed penalties. If I can't, then I won't. I'm not authorised to break the law and the emergency vehicles will have to find another way past, or they can get out and move my car themselves which I'll video them doing.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Saturday 27th June 14:06
I take he line is one day it may be me or a loved one and 15 seconds at a traffic light for some twazzock either being deaf and blind or "the highway code says .." may mean life or death for an ambulance or fire engine involved so I will gladly move. Have done and will continue to do so.
A not so petty irk of mine it to be sat in traffic hear a siren then see blue lights approaching and move out of the way while some 50-60% of the traffic around me sit stationary immobile and either unthinking or unaware :/
A not so petty irk of mine it to be sat in traffic hear a siren then see blue lights approaching and move out of the way while some 50-60% of the traffic around me sit stationary immobile and either unthinking or unaware :/
saaby93 said:
Deoesnt it come under being directed by a traffic officer where the ambulance driver is acting as one and youre liable if you dont act as directed?
Unless an actual police officer turns up and moves my car himself, it isn't moving. A police officer cannot instruct you to break the law. He can only agree to turn a blind eye to it. Would you trust them if they said they would? I certainly wouldn't. They can move it themselves by all means and I'll video them doing so.Again - this attitude is the result of the way the police (as a whole) treat ordinary people. They can look to themselves if they don't like it.
t....AMST09 said:
My understanding was only police cars can force you to cross a red light
When I last read the HC, the rule on red lights was that only a police officer can instruct you to pass one (even if it's stuck on red and you've been there a week)Also - most RC cameras aim at the centre of the junction so pull-over to the left and it probably won't even trigger - and if it does, you'll be obviously 'getting out of the way' of something anyway.
Scenario
At a Red light, blues (any type) come up behind, i move forward and get t boned by a guy crossing on the his green
Whose fault? IN THE EYES OF THE LAW?
I wont and havent moved when confronted by a plod who actually got out of his car and told me to 'shift it'
I just pointed at the red, said No, and he went back to his car
They are trained to get around us, we are not trained to get out of their way
Just Saying........
At a Red light, blues (any type) come up behind, i move forward and get t boned by a guy crossing on the his green
Whose fault? IN THE EYES OF THE LAW?
I wont and havent moved when confronted by a plod who actually got out of his car and told me to 'shift it'
I just pointed at the red, said No, and he went back to his car
They are trained to get around us, we are not trained to get out of their way
Just Saying........
Nope, until the law is changed to accept that drivers are able to make judgement calls in these situations I won't change my behaviour. I'll make space if possible, but the onus is on them to draw on their training to make safe passage without expecting me to run a red light. If their route is dependent on a member of the public running a red light, then perhaps he/she needs further training.
silverfoxcc said:
Scenario
At a Red light, blues (any type) come up behind, i move forward and get t boned by a guy crossing on the his green
Whose fault? IN THE EYES OF THE LAW?
Just because it's green they dont plough through regardless, so their fault unless you moved into their path within their stopping distance without checking tooAt a Red light, blues (any type) come up behind, i move forward and get t boned by a guy crossing on the his green
Whose fault? IN THE EYES OF THE LAW?
They'll also have not taken much notice of the blue lights also about to come through
Usually though you're not moving right across the junction into their path, just moving forward of the red light, across a bit out if the way and under direction.
I'll happily move through a non camera red carefully for any emergency vehicle but wouldn't go through a camera. I thought emergency vehicle drivers were trained to aviod putting people in that exact situation?
I had a driver get arsey with me once when I refused to move my Elise up onto a high kerb to let a police car through. Doing so would have ripped the front bumper off but this idiot didn't seem to realise/care about that. The fact I refused to speak a word to him annoyed him even more.
I had a driver get arsey with me once when I refused to move my Elise up onto a high kerb to let a police car through. Doing so would have ripped the front bumper off but this idiot didn't seem to realise/care about that. The fact I refused to speak a word to him annoyed him even more.
Interesting question. I've always thought I would move but reading the replies I can see the valid points people are making for not moving. It's rare it ever happens but I will have to take things into account the next time I have to make way for an emergency vehicle. Always educational this place!
A member of the public shouldn't (imo if there is a chance of an accident) and doesn't by law have to 'break' a red light for any emergency vehicle with blues & twos going.
Most decent cops/emerg drivers will put sirens off at a set of red lights if they cannot get through and wait until green to reactivate and make progress.
I have cringed as a passenger of, at many newbie emerg drivers going red in the face and over reacting when drivers simply wont go over the red line into a busy light set box junction - and rightly so (imo if there is chance of an accident)
I have also been on the receiving end of an angry emerg driver attempting to force me out into a busy light set junction and onto a high kerb with continual manual horn activation (albiet his progress only hindered for 5-6 seconds)
Remember under the road traffic act, a constable in uniform can give you a lawful order to move your vehicle and you must follow his instruction (imo a vehicle behind you at a set of red lights with blues & twos on does not fit this, - the direction must be in person)
(emerg service insight)
I will clarify, imo = all depends on the conditions, traffic volume etc, and if there is chance of an accident with you directly passing through the light. If the junction is completely clear of vehicles, and you are the only of a few vehicles, then yes, make room as best as possible and if you can, pass the red light.
Most decent cops/emerg drivers will put sirens off at a set of red lights if they cannot get through and wait until green to reactivate and make progress.
I have cringed as a passenger of, at many newbie emerg drivers going red in the face and over reacting when drivers simply wont go over the red line into a busy light set box junction - and rightly so (imo if there is chance of an accident)
I have also been on the receiving end of an angry emerg driver attempting to force me out into a busy light set junction and onto a high kerb with continual manual horn activation (albiet his progress only hindered for 5-6 seconds)
Remember under the road traffic act, a constable in uniform can give you a lawful order to move your vehicle and you must follow his instruction (imo a vehicle behind you at a set of red lights with blues & twos on does not fit this, - the direction must be in person)
(emerg service insight)
I will clarify, imo = all depends on the conditions, traffic volume etc, and if there is chance of an accident with you directly passing through the light. If the junction is completely clear of vehicles, and you are the only of a few vehicles, then yes, make room as best as possible and if you can, pass the red light.
Edited by lxm on Saturday 27th June 15:05
Edited by lxm on Saturday 27th June 15:06
Edited by lxm on Saturday 27th June 15:06
Edited by lxm on Saturday 27th June 15:10
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