Is this true...barrackroom lawyer stuff
Discussion
I'm told that if your vehicle is registered to a company and you get a "who was driving at xxx time/date" letter and you fail to respond or just say you cannot be sure; that the company secretary will be awarded points/fine.
If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
The Company Secretary would get done for failing to furnish (provide) driver information, for which failure to keep records is rarely a defence. http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/faq-answer?id=Q6...
So the company gets a fine, probably £600 max as it won't be earnings related like an individual and the paranoid powerfully built and presumably tall driving god company director keeps his licence clean. Don't really see a downside to this, no having to tell an insurance company you have been captured leading to increased premiums, no having to worry about totting up; other than a road side stop you would be bulletproof.
For the avoidance of doubt I would never set such a thing up as I am but a lowly employee but should a small business owner do this it seems to be a no brainer
For the avoidance of doubt I would never set such a thing up as I am but a lowly employee but should a small business owner do this it seems to be a no brainer
dubious - a company of a certain size etc. no longer needs a company secretary 
I suspect that if there was a desire, any company director could be hauled into court - asked the information, and if it was not given be punished...
on the basis that points can be given for things nothing to do with driving, I am sure it could involve points and fines...
Directors are responsible for the company - there is a responsibility to know who was driving what and when
I suspect that if there was a desire, any company director could be hauled into court - asked the information, and if it was not given be punished...
on the basis that points can be given for things nothing to do with driving, I am sure it could involve points and fines...
Directors are responsible for the company - there is a responsibility to know who was driving what and when
Rangeroverover said:
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
A few years ago, but: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1538042/Lea...This may be a winner, if chief constable was fined £500 for not knowing who was driving and no points awarded as you cannot give an entity points, it looks doable.
1)Letter arrives "who was driving etc"
2)Co Sec answers, dunno,
3)next letter arrives fine of £500-£1000,
4)Co Sec sends cheque.
Still cheaper and less worrying than having totting points and enhanced insurance cost.
This is obviously just a theoretical excercise
1)Letter arrives "who was driving etc"
2)Co Sec answers, dunno,
3)next letter arrives fine of £500-£1000,
4)Co Sec sends cheque.
Still cheaper and less worrying than having totting points and enhanced insurance cost.
This is obviously just a theoretical excercise
Rangeroverover said:
1)Letter arrives "who was driving etc"
2)Co Sec answers, dunno,
3)next letter arrives fine of £500-£1000,
4)Co Sec sends cheque.
Knock, knock.2)Co Sec answers, dunno,
3)next letter arrives fine of £500-£1000,
4)Co Sec sends cheque.
Hello, who's there?
PC Smith - I've come to find out who was driving this car registered to your company
Sorry, I've no idea.
How many cars does your company have?
Two
How many employees does your company have?
Two
Who is the usual driver of which car?
Dunno guv
You're nicked!
assuming its not some really outrageous crime and just ordinary speed camera stuff even if the Co Sec does say they don't know it still only a fine probably less than £1000.
If the federales do turn up on the doorstep and are told it could have been any of these six people but we don't know which whats the outcome........a fine its not like you can end up on the wrong end of a section 2 interview
If the federales do turn up on the doorstep and are told it could have been any of these six people but we don't know which whats the outcome........a fine its not like you can end up on the wrong end of a section 2 interview
Easier way is to reply to the request to identify the driver with a scan of your masonic lodge's coat of arms along with three equal length pubes (doesn't matter whose pubes, just make sure they are equal in length for God's sake).
This will trigger a special process enshrined in a little known secret law in 1836 and get all the speeding tickets cancelled. So just use that instead.
But I didn't tell you that ok?
Or alternatively, if you are actually speeding then take the points instead of finding weasely ways to avoid them like some sort of low rent criminal wingnut.
This will trigger a special process enshrined in a little known secret law in 1836 and get all the speeding tickets cancelled. So just use that instead.
But I didn't tell you that ok?
Or alternatively, if you are actually speeding then take the points instead of finding weasely ways to avoid them like some sort of low rent criminal wingnut.
Rangeroverover said:
I'm told that if your vehicle is registered to a company and you get a "who was driving at xxx time/date" letter and you fail to respond or just say you cannot be sure; that the company secretary will be awarded points/fine.
If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
The company is prosecuted. Maximum fine is £1000 and usually around £500-£600 - allowing some credit for a guilty plea.If by chance the Co Sec was a non driver I presume they would pick up the points on their non existent licence and whoever was driving would get off scott free.
Obviously this would be a terrible state of affairs, providing one hadn't set up the company structure for this reason alone I suppose there would be no criminal intent. I imagine you would want the vehicle insured for general/pool use.
Is this bar talk nonsense or is there a grain of truth in this
The company secretary could be prosecuted, but I've never seen it happen.
Rangeroverover said:
Dear Dobbo
as you will see above I am an employee so this not available to me, its called an academic exercise; as high horses probably don't exceed the speed limit you are no doubt safe. Safer still as I gather the post office don't deliver to ivory towers.
Love and kisses etc
Touchy much? I was responding to your academic exercise by saying it's all a bit low rent and pathetic. Seems like a lot of administrative overhead and effort to avoid a small speeding fine and 3 points. Perhaps that effort could be better spent improving the company rather than avoiding speeding fines.as you will see above I am an employee so this not available to me, its called an academic exercise; as high horses probably don't exceed the speed limit you are no doubt safe. Safer still as I gather the post office don't deliver to ivory towers.
Love and kisses etc
Congrats on usage of both high horse and ivory tower in one sentence, but you missed a Hitler comparison so only get 7/10 for your reply.
I was stalin waiting for your response, unless you have a clean licence it reeks of the pol pot calling the kettle black, however having seen AGTs answer I still think its a bargain, especially for those afflicted with 9 points.
Naturally I have a cleanish licence and in common with all PH users wouldn't dream of straying from a NSL to a controlled space and pick up points or speeding ever.
Naturally I have a cleanish licence and in common with all PH users wouldn't dream of straying from a NSL to a controlled space and pick up points or speeding ever.
Rangeroverover said:
I was stalin waiting for your response, unless you have a clean licence it reeks of the pol pot calling the kettle black, however having seen AGTs answer I still think its a bargain, especially for those afflicted with 9 points.
Naturally I have a cleanish licence and in common with all PH users wouldn't dream of straying from a NSL to a controlled space and pick up points or speeding ever.
RTA s172Naturally I have a cleanish licence and in common with all PH users wouldn't dream of straying from a NSL to a controlled space and pick up points or speeding ever.
...(5)Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
When the company becomes a little absent minded the directors of that company can all be sent a personal S172 notice. Makes for an interesting board meeting I would think.
If they avail themselves of the "well we haven't kept any records" excuse it will be noted and a second occurrence is not going to be so well received I'm sure.
This almost happened at a previous workplace of mine. We used to work 2 to a van and travelled all over the country then one day the company received a NIP for one of the vans. We were able to identify who was in it at the time however the two suspects claimed not to be able to remember who was driving.
Eventually the threat of a £1000 fine came in and the boss decided that if they still couldn't remember who was driving then the company would pay the fine and then dock the cost from the wages of the two suspects. It didn't go that far because with this threat the culprit put his hand up. What was actually happening was the two suspects knew exactly who was driving but decided to try and bluff it out but obviously the innocent one wasn't keen on being stung for £500.
I would be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't happen quite a lot in businesses where multiple people would be in a vehicle at the same time. If folks are prepared to pay a student a couple of grand to take the points then this would seem a bargain. I just wonder if it would still be seen as perjury?
Eventually the threat of a £1000 fine came in and the boss decided that if they still couldn't remember who was driving then the company would pay the fine and then dock the cost from the wages of the two suspects. It didn't go that far because with this threat the culprit put his hand up. What was actually happening was the two suspects knew exactly who was driving but decided to try and bluff it out but obviously the innocent one wasn't keen on being stung for £500.
I would be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't happen quite a lot in businesses where multiple people would be in a vehicle at the same time. If folks are prepared to pay a student a couple of grand to take the points then this would seem a bargain. I just wonder if it would still be seen as perjury?
jurbie said:
This almost happened at a previous workplace of mine. We used to work 2 to a van and travelled all over the country then one day the company received a NIP for one of the vans. We were able to identify who was in it at the time however the two suspects claimed not to be able to remember who was driving.
Eventually the threat of a £1000 fine came in and the boss decided that if they still couldn't remember who was driving then the company would pay the fine and then dock the cost from the wages of the two suspects. It didn't go that far because with this threat the culprit put his hand up. What was actually happening was the two suspects knew exactly who was driving but decided to try and bluff it out but obviously the innocent one wasn't keen on being stung for £500.
I would be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't happen quite a lot in businesses where multiple people would be in a vehicle at the same time. If folks are prepared to pay a student a couple of grand to take the points then this would seem a bargain. I just wonder if it would still be seen as perjury?
That sounds good, but I'm not sure you are actually able to fine your employees.Eventually the threat of a £1000 fine came in and the boss decided that if they still couldn't remember who was driving then the company would pay the fine and then dock the cost from the wages of the two suspects. It didn't go that far because with this threat the culprit put his hand up. What was actually happening was the two suspects knew exactly who was driving but decided to try and bluff it out but obviously the innocent one wasn't keen on being stung for £500.
I would be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't happen quite a lot in businesses where multiple people would be in a vehicle at the same time. If folks are prepared to pay a student a couple of grand to take the points then this would seem a bargain. I just wonder if it would still be seen as perjury?
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