Bought a lemon from a dealer

[caelite]

Hello folks

So I finally got around to replacing my rattly diesel with something a bit more PH at the weekend. After about 2 hours and 100miles of ownership I find myself seeking legal advice xD.

Anywho I purchased a 2003 MG ZS 180 from a dealer about 180 miles from my home on Saturday for the princely sum of £1000. The car was advertised by the dealer "sold as seen" as he had taken it as part-ex from a customer. The vehicle had a couple of minor faults which I was more than happy to fix and where expected at the age and price. However 100miles into my ~180mile motorway slog home the vehicle lost power and left me stranded 80 miles from home with a overheated smelling engine. Called the AA and the lad said it sounded like the top end of the engine was being starved of oil, most likely a siezed oil pump causing this. I have yet to get a full quote for repairs but a friend is taking it apart to diagnose the issue fully, he says if it is the oil pump engine repairs may cost more than the total purchase price (£1000).

HOWEVER when signing the receipt I noted that it stated "for spares or repair". Its my knowledge that the vehicle was advertised as in roadworthy condition and was sold with the intention of the buyer driving away (dealer wanted proof of insurance and tax before leaving his lot) and also was advertised with full 12 months MOT.

I have not yet contacted the dealer but would I be in my right to request a partial refund to deal with engine repairs for a major fault that turned up literally hours after the vehicle was purchased? I feel like ive really screwed myself by signing that receipt.

Thanks
CAE

PS: I know rover KV6 motors have a habit of overheating but I was sitting at a constant ~75mph and the temperature guage was at optimal operating temp, no warning lights appeared.

[TheLordJohn]

I have no idea on the legal side of it, but if I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking I'd signed my own death warrant by signing that receipt!
But, did you check all fluid levels before driving it off?
Bad luck, either way. Hope you get sorted.

[TooMany2cvs]

The receipt wording makes no difference - he cannot, legally, escape SOGA and his legal responsibility to ensure all cars he sells are roadworthy unless he ensures they aren't driven away.

Having said that...
12yo £1k car with known faults.
It got 100 miles with no problems before the oil pump failure.

You're on your own.

[caelite]

TheLordJohn said:

I have no idea on the legal side of it, but if I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking I'd signed my own death warrant by signing that receipt!
But, did you check all fluid levels before driving it off?
Bad luck, either way. Hope you get sorted.

Aye I didnt really think about it at the time. Looked like a clean buy to be honest, same owner for the last 7 years, serviced every year / 5-10k miles with book stamps for all but the last one (which there was a receipt for)

Coolant was just above the low line when I viewed it but the dealer agreed to top it up before I left. Oil was a healthy yellow-ey brown colour and was 2/3rds up the dipstick line. Engine sounded fantastic and bar some play in the pedals it drove great. This aint my first time buying a motor, usually I dont pick out the lemons xD.

Faults where minor
handbrake needed tightened
minor exhaust leak at backbox (looked like some exhaust tape would sort it, very minor corrosion in the old stock piping leading to the aftermarket backbox)
rear brakes needed new pads & possibly disks
corrosion on fuel filler cap
couple of bodywork skuffs (its a 12 year old car)

nothing engine related, all but the brakes where noted on the MOT as advisories.

TooMany2cvs said:

The receipt wording makes no difference - he cannot, legally, escape SOGA and his legal responsibility to ensure all cars he sells are roadworthy unless he ensures they aren't driven away.

Having said that...
12yo £1k car with known faults.
It got 100 miles with no problems before the oil pump failure.

You're on your own.

So a car younger than 60 years old isnt expected to do a 200mile motorway slog without nearly eating its own engine?

Although I see your point with a cheap motor comeback is somewhat little. Im just wondering if its even worth trying to contact the dealer.

Edited by caelite on Monday 14th September 21:53

[TooMany2cvs]

caelite said:

So a car younger than 60 years old isnt expected to do a 200mile motorway slog without nearly eating its own engine?

SOGA rights for used goods are tempered by age, price and pre-purchase known general condition.

On a 12yo, bottom-of-price-range car with known faults, those expectations are not high - especially when the nature of the failure indicates that the fault was not apparent before purchase.

[Mr GrimNasty]

TooMany2cvs said:

The receipt wording makes no difference - he cannot, legally, escape SOGA and his legal responsibility to ensure all cars he sells are roadworthy unless he ensures they aren't driven away.

A bit more than that really........

Yes it does and yes he can, but in this case the dealer probably hasn't done enough.

The advert, any discussions, the receipt etc. should all make clear that the car is for spares or repair and there should be no representation of MOT and they should not let you drive it away.

A rapid engine failure does not constitute unroadworthy at the point of sale either!

Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Monday 14th September 22:27

[ging84]

generally you are well within your rights to reject a car that develops a major fault within a day or so of purchase, the issue around £1k cars though is you are still going to be >£100 out of pocket assuming you taxed and insured it and filled up your tank, and regardless what you rights might be you have pretty much zero chance of getting those costs back. On top of that it's a load of hassle, unless it's really ruined, you are still probably best looking for a repair contribution and making the best of it.

[popeyewhite]

Weren't there any £1000 cars nearer to home?

[caelite]

ging84 said:

generally you are well within your rights to reject a car that develops a major fault within a day or so of purchase, the issue around £1k cars though is you are still going to be >£100 out of pocket assuming you taxed and insured it and filled up your tank, and regardless what you rights might be you have pretty much zero chance of getting those costs back. On top of that it's a load of hassle, unless it's really ruined, you are still probably best looking for a repair contribution and making the best of it.

Thanks, This is kind of what I was expecting, £50 of fuel in the tank, £55 tempcover insurance and £280 in tax, albeit the latter I would probably claim about £200 back of, then the hassle of getting it all the way back down south to newcastle. I think I will give the guy a call tommorow asking for a partial refund to cover repair costs as I believe it was more than coincidental that a major fault crops up 2 hours after ownership after the dealer claimed he drove it for a "couple of weeks". I fully expect to be told to ps off and pushing the issue as others have pointed out probably wont be worth it.

Thank you for the advice guys, Im hoping its turns out to be a minor repair for the major fault otherwise my bank account is screwed ;D. The car was absolutely fantastic to drive for the time I had it over the A69 so I cant wait to get it working.

popeyewhite said:

Weren't there any £1000 cars nearer to home?

You have never tried car shopping in the north of Scotland mate . You need to travel for EVERYTHING, whether it 70miles to Glasgow or 180 to Newcastle shopping for a car is a daytrip so I may aswell go for one I really like the look of.

[Sir Bagalot]

Why do people buy 12 year old family cars from dealer

[caelite]

Sir Bagalot said:

Why do people buy 12 year old family cars from dealer

It was the closest one to my home and was actually one of the cheaper ones about. Was just a dodgy car trader not really a dealership (you would struggle to find one for a MG/Rover nowadays lol).

Also... its a NICE "family car"

xD

[bigee]

Wish you well OP,of course the dealer/seller should do the decent thing and offer something,but sadly these days the opposite is the norm.Thinking about it the way things are these days,if buying at the 'lower' end of the market (scrap that,any level of the market ! ) it would seem you are better off buying private.At least you will not have paid the dealers wet rag mark up for a car with seemingly no come back.

[Monkeylegend]

To describe him as a dodgy car dealer is a little unfair. He described it as for spares or repair which in this case was a very accurate description.

Edited by Monkeylegend on Tuesday 15th September 09:25

[JustinP1]

caelite said:

I have not yet contacted the dealer but would I be in my right to request a partial refund to deal with engine repairs for a major fault that turned up literally hours after the vehicle was purchased?

I feel like ive really screwed myself by signing that receipt.

Yes.

Yes.

As optimistic as I'd like to be, I can see this playing out as:

You: The car's broke can I have X?

Dealer: Huh? It was sold as parts.

You: No it wasn't.

Dealer: Yes it was.

You: Well, there's nothing I can go apart from suing you to force the issue..... "Sold me a dodgy car on X...."

Dealer: Customer was told that the car was unchecked by us and was sold for spares or repair only, please see scanned receipt.

[Sheepshanks]

caelite said:

Im just wondering if its even worth trying to contact the dealer.

Nothing ventured and all that, but even if it was sold as a runner he'd likely assume you're one of those scammy buyers who rings up and tries to get some of the purchase price back.

[lee_fr200]

He's sold it spares or repair so legally u have no comeback as he will say it needed repairs and you have signed and accepted this,

[lee_fr200]

He's sold it spares or repair so legally u have no comeback as he will say it needed repairs and you have signed and accepted this,

[anonymous-user]

You are wrong about that, lee. It is, I suggest, not a good idea to state legal conclusions so emphatically when you are misinformed about the subject matter. It so happens that, on the facts of this case, the OP may be on a sticky wicket, for reasons well explained by others above, but not because of some words on the document that he signed.

[lee_fr200]

So how's it different to Danny dc2 thread where he's sold a s2000 mechanically sound

It broke down literally 5 miles after buying it with what sounds like a knackered engine and everyone saying it's sold as seen and there's nothing the new owner can do tell him to jog on

Then in this thread a guy has offered a car sold as seen as its a part ex and on the receipt put spares or repair which the new owner has signed to accept its broken down now ppl are saying there's a come back!

So plz tell me what's the difference

[andburg]

lee_fr200 said:

So how's it different to Danny dc2 thread where he's sold a s2000 mechanically sound

It broke down literally 5 miles after buying it with what sounds like a knackered engine and everyone saying it's sold as seen and there's nothing the new owner can do tell him to jog on

Then in this thread a guy has offered a car sold as seen as its a part ex and on the receipt put spares or repair which the new owner has signed to accept its broken down now ppl are saying there's a come back!

So plz tell me what's the difference

Danny is not a motor trader, the seller of this vehicle was.
This buyer signed a receipt stating vehicle was for spares/repairs and paid £1000 not £9000 for a car with no known faults.