Bought BMW bike - brake failure

[DickusMaximus]

Hi folks,

I bought a BMW R1200GS on Saturday - just £2900 on 40,000 miles because cosmetically it's not A1 after being left on the drive for 3 years

Bike behaved impeccably on the run home to Brighton from London

Yesterday and today each ride starts fine then the Brake Warning light comes on

I've had these bikes before and BMW have confirmed that 'it could be loose wire or it could be a £1000 ABS pump - I've booked it in for a £50 diagnostic at my expense

Had a long conversation with the vendor who keeps saying it's sold as seen and that's an end to it - he 'hopes it doesn't get legal' and believes there's no legal requirement for a vehicle sold privately to be roadworthy

He's a decent enough bloke and did just 3000 miles in the 3 years he had the bike

It's also not starting on about 1 in 3 goes and I want a full refund if the repair is anything over £100 or so

Thank you for any help folks

Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 19th October 17:29

Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 19th October 17:30

[WinstonWolf]

Unfortunately you can't ask for a refund on a private sale, it's definitely caveat emptor. Hopefully it's just a wire...

[DickusMaximus]

Blimey - so if I have a car with a massive but not easily visible fault I can punt it out and hope the buyer doesn't ask if the brakes might fail anytime soon?

[speedking31]

Did you ask?

[DickusMaximus]

From the AA:

The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

the car must be roadworthy - it is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car and an MOT certificate from a test several months ago is no guarantee that the car is roadworthy today.

[eldar]

DickusMaximus said:

Blimey - so if I have a car with a massive but not easily visible fault I can punt it out and hope the buyer doesn't ask if the brakes might fail anytime soon?

Basically yes, provided you don't conceal the truth and it isn't dangerous.

Up to the buyer to check condition and ask the right questions.

[andburg]

he presence of the warning light does not make the bike unroadworthy in my opinion.

The brakes still work, it still rides and did so without any issue during your test and ride home.

These things happen I'm afraid.

http://www.ukmot.com/bike-3-1.asp#Text_top

No rejection reason for ABS inoperational, only that an advisory should be given for any ABS failure.
Car MOT is different and an ABS warning lamp is a failure

Edited by andburg on Monday 19th October 17:56

[ging84]

DickusMaximus said:

Hi folks,

I bought a BMW R1200GS on Saturday - just £2900 on 40,000 miles because cosmetically it's not A1 after being left on the drive for 3 years

Bike behaved impeccably on the run home to Brighton from London

Yesterday and today each ride starts fine then the Brake Warning light comes on

I've had these bikes before and BMW have confirmed that 'it could be loose wire or it could be a £1000 ABS pump - I've booked it in for a £50 diagnostic at my expense

Had a long conversation with the vendor who keeps saying it's sold as seen and that's an end to it - he 'hopes it doesn't get legal' and believes there's no legal requirement for a vehicle sold privately to be roadworthy

He's a decent enough bloke and did just 3000 miles in the 3 years he had the bike

It's also not starting on about 1 in 3 goes and I want a full refund if the repair is anything over £100 or so

Thank you for any help folks

Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 19th October 17:29

Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 19th October 17:30

Bike was road worthy at point of sale this statement confirms it

if you want dealer service, buy it from a dealer and pay a dealer price

You bought private, and probably save quite a lot of money compared with the retail price, you took the risk that it might have latent faults.

[essayer]

Checked the brake fluid?

[heebeegeetee]

DickusMaximus said:

Blimey - so if I have a car with a massive but not easily visible fault I can punt it out and hope the buyer doesn't ask if the brakes might fail anytime soon?

Yes. Or you could sell a perfectly working machine that develops a fault after it was sold.

Did the warning light indicate the moment when the fault developed? If so, then you know that the fault occurred when in your ownership.

Of course if it transpire that the fault was deliberately hidden then that's another issue, but with a private sale, and if the seller doesn't want to co-operate, you'll still have a difficult case to follow.

[Motorrad]

Private sale- caveat emptor.

I wouldn't entertain any dialogue with a vendor of a vehicle I bought in those circumstances and wouldn't expect a purchaser to come back and talk to me.

BMW motorcycles of a certain ERA are a PITA brake wise. I'd recommend a reset. Low battery voltage caused mine to fk up.

[fuzzymonkey]

DickusMaximus said:

I bought a BMW R1200GS on Saturday - just £2900 on 40,000 miles because cosmetically it's not A1 after being left on the drive for 3 years

DickusMaximus said:

It's also not starting on about 1 in 3 goes and I want a full refund if the repair is anything over £100 or so

So you bought a bike privately for a very good price that has been left outside and used little and are now surprised it has some issues that need sorting and now want compensation cause its you "'uman rights init"

[Davie_GLA]

You've no chance i'm afraid. Unles you can prove that he knew any faults existed upon point of sale. The statements above confirm this is not the case and the fault occurred whilst in your ownership.

In this very forum section you will see many accounts of the problem from the sellers perspective. Each and every time the advice will be to tell the buyer to 'jog on'. He will be getting this very advice and has nothing to worry about.

You said brake failure but only mention a light coming on. Do the brakes still work?

Sorry mate, chalk it up and move on.

D.

[Butter Face]

fuzzymonkey said:

DickusMaximus said:

I bought a BMW R1200GS on Saturday - just £2900 on 40,000 miles because cosmetically it's not A1 after being left on the drive for 3 years

DickusMaximus said:

It's also not starting on about 1 in 3 goes and I want a full refund if the repair is anything over £100 or so

So you bought a bike privately for a very good price that has been left outside and used little and are now surprised it has some issues that need sorting and now want compensation cause its you "'uman rights init"

Unfortunately this. You bought a bike that's been sat outside for 3 years, anyone would realise that it may have hidden problems and you bought it with that knowledge. Pretty simple really!

[NiceCupOfTea]

That's the risk you get buying privately. If you want warranties you need to buy a bike from a dealer. If the bike has been standing a long time you need to give the brakes a once over anyway.

I bought a TVR privately a few years ago and the clutch hydraulics failed the next day. I'm fairly sure he knew there was a problem and that he had topped off the fluid and hoped it got me home, but it was buyer beware so I got my hands dirty and fixed it myself. Didn't even dream of calling him up about it.

You said yourself that you got it cheap because it had stood for a while, so use some of that saving to get it fixed. The only possible caveat is if you specifically asked about the brakes and he said they were in perfect working order. But even then, they clearly (as per your admission) worked perfectly on the way home, so the fault has occurred in your ownership.

[t400ble]

Sounds like you should have purchased from a dealer

[defblade]

Well known problem area on BMW bikes (and cars). They go quite frequently and without warning. One of the reasons I sold my K1200 on, at some loss, was the constant nagging fear of a large bill appearing at the drop of a hat.

IE, tough, get it fixed if you're bothered.

[kev b]

Private sale, no comeback, don't buy an older complicated bike if you don't have the skills or funds to fix it when it goes wrong. It was stood outside for 3 years, a few niggles are to be expected.

Finger waving over, get on the BMW forums and search for your fault, could just be a flat/knackered battery or rust/brake dust on the ABS sensors.

Learn to work on your bikes and you can save a fortune, and avoid the inconvenience of having to take/leave your bike at the dealers when you could be riding.

[LiquidGnome]

It's been left outside for 3 years and barely ridden. Machines need to be used, or they start to decay.

[Durzel]

ging84 said:

Bike was road worthy at point of sale this statement confirms it

if you want dealer service, buy it from a dealer and pay a dealer price

You bought private, and probably save quite a lot of money compared with the retail price, you took the risk that it might have latent faults.

+1

You seem to be expecting some kind of warranty comparable to a trader/main dealer from a random guy.

Cars/bikes go wrong, on a long enough timeline anything mechanical will. You've just been unlucky in this instance.

Whilst "caveat emptor" is not the absolute get-out that is being stated, unless the seller misrepresented it unambiguously I don't think you'll get anywhere legally.