Single white line, drop curb.- pic

[tonycott]

The local council have just painted this in front of someone's house. Why not use double yellows if it's to stop people parking there. Notice the right side goes out further past the drop curb.

Wonder why we don't see more of them.

[pheasant]

It's not to stop people parking there, the owner of the drive can still block himself in if he wishes with a 2nd car - could not do that with double yellows

[PAULJ5555]

pheasant said:

It's not to stop people parking there, the owner of the drive can still block himself in if he wishes with a 2nd car - could not do that with double yellows

But how would a traffic warden know who's car it was, I assume the car would get a ticket whatever?

[Some Gump]

Nope, you're allowed to park on whites.

[PAULJ5555]

Some Gump said:

Nope, you're allowed to park on whites.

But why are the council spending money on this if its pointless.

[SidJames]

Some Gump said:

Nope, you're allowed to park on whites.

didn't think you could stop on whites, never mind park on them?

[ModernAndy]

The purpose of preventing cars parking there isn't just for the sake of the homeowner's driveway. The dropped kerb is also of use for those in wheelchairs, people with prams/buggies, etc. As such, even the homeowner can't block that bit of road where councils have bylaws in place.

[Some Gump]

White line serves only to make it clear to all that it's a dropped curb. There are no parking restrictions implied by it.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-...

[jhfozzy]

First hit on Google.

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/resident/parking-roads/ro...

DMBC said:

Road Markings for Vehicle Crossings / H Bar Road Markings

Occasionally, when a Vehicle Crossing has been installed, there is a follow up call to request a white "H" mark. The decision as to whether a "H" mark is provided is made by the Traffic & Transportation Division. "H" marks are used for properties adjacent to public buildings - e.g. schools, offices, shops - the distance from such buildings is not specific and is dependant upon other environmental factors. "H" marks are not available for residential exclusive areas.

What is a 'H' Bar road marking?
It is a road marking, shaped like an elongated 'H' which is placed across a vehicular access or driveway. It is used to remind drivers that it is illegal to park in front of dropped kerb driveways.

Please note that this does not mean that all dropped kerb driveways are eligible to be highlighted with an advisory white "H" line.

How long can the marking be?
The marking is only intended to mark out the width of the driveway, and as such will only be provided from a point where the kerbs start sloping down (usually 1 metre from the edge of the driveway).

Can I use the 'H' bar to reserve a parking space for my own vehicle?
The marking is provided solely to highlight the presence of a driveway. If you park your own vehicle there, it devalues the meaning of the marking, and shows to other drivers that you do not need access to the driveway. 'H' bars which are continually parked over by the resident could be removed.

Can they be legally enforced?
'H' bars are a nationally recognised marking, and give West Midlands Police additional evidence to allow them to issue a fixed penalty notice for obstruction. Please note that, for enforcement,the presence of a white "H" line is not necessary because the law is being broken every time parking takes place in front of any dropped kerb driveway. The enforcement of obstruction of dropped kerb driveways remains with the Police.

Dudley's own Parking Attendants do not have the power to issue penalty notices for obstruction.

[tonycott]

ModernAndy said:

The purpose of preventing cars parking there isn't just for the sake of the homeowner's driveway. The dropped kerb is also of use for those in wheelchairs, people with prams/buggies, etc. As such, even the homeowner can't block that bit of road where councils have bylaws in place.

But why is there not one on every street, there is even a drop curb with the dotted pavement further up the same road, people park and block this but no white line has been added.

[jhfozzy]

tonycott said:

ModernAndy said:

The purpose of preventing cars parking there isn't just for the sake of the homeowner's driveway. The dropped kerb is also of use for those in wheelchairs, people with prams/buggies, etc. As such, even the homeowner can't block that bit of road where councils have bylaws in place.

But why is there not one on every street, there is even a drop curb with the dotted pavement further up the same road, people park and block this but no white line has been added.

When I extended my driveway to a double drive, I was offered a H-Bar for £80 extra. Can't really see the point in them though.

[grumpyscot]

In Edinburgh, they are considered "courtesy" lines and are only meant to "suggest" that you don't park there. No legal standing as the council roads guy advised.

[ModernAndy]

To answer all the above, it's to do with bylaws. What Dudley council state and do is to do with their bylaws which can be different from any other council. Generally where the council go to the bother of putting these markings in place, nobody is allowed to park on them and there's usually a very good reason not to park in the space (marked or not) anyway.

[tonycott]

ModernAndy said:

To answer all the above, it's to do with bylaws. What Dudley council state and do is to do with their bylaws which can be different from any other council. Generally where the council go to the bother of putting these markings in place, nobody is allowed to park on them and there's usually a very good reason not to park in the space (marked or not) anyway.

Its just someone's drive way same access as everyone else on the street. There is no drop curb on the other side of the road just a pavement and 8ft stone wall no houses.

[steve2]

Post started on Monday had this on it
http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/7310/Parking-...

[ModernAndy]

tonycott said:

Its just someone's drive way same access as everyone else on the street. There is no drop curb on the other side of the road just a pavement and 8ft stone wall no houses.

[paulwirral]

PAULJ5555 said:

But why are the council spending money on this if its pointless.

The council highways department charges for painting the line , it's £166 here !

[FiF]

jhfozzy said:

First hit on Google.

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/resident/parking-roads/ro...

DMBC said:

Road Markings for Vehicle Crossings / H Bar Road Markings

Occasionally, when a Vehicle Crossing has been installed, there is a follow up call to request a white "H" mark. The decision as to whether a "H" mark is provided is made by the Traffic & Transportation Division. "H" marks are used for properties adjacent to public buildings - e.g. schools, offices, shops - the distance from such buildings is not specific and is dependant upon other environmental factors. "H" marks are not available for residential exclusive areas.

What is a 'H' Bar road marking?
It is a road marking, shaped like an elongated 'H' which is placed across a vehicular access or driveway. It is used to remind drivers that it is illegal to park in front of dropped kerb driveways.

Please note that this does not mean that all dropped kerb driveways are eligible to be highlighted with an advisory white "H" line.

How long can the marking be?
The marking is only intended to mark out the width of the driveway, and as such will only be provided from a point where the kerbs start sloping down (usually 1 metre from the edge of the driveway).

Can I use the 'H' bar to reserve a parking space for my own vehicle?
The marking is provided solely to highlight the presence of a driveway. If you park your own vehicle there, it devalues the meaning of the marking, and shows to other drivers that you do not need access to the driveway. 'H' bars which are continually parked over by the resident could be removed.

Can they be legally enforced?
'H' bars are a nationally recognised marking, and give West Midlands Police additional evidence to allow them to issue a fixed penalty notice for obstruction. Please note that, for enforcement,the presence of a white "H" line is not necessary because the law is being broken every time parking takes place in front of any dropped kerb driveway. The enforcement of obstruction of dropped kerb driveways remains with the Police.

Dudley's own Parking Attendants do not have the power to issue penalty notices for obstruction.

And yet the Traffic Management Act 2004 which specifically deals with parking in front of a dropped kerb in part 6 section 86 allow s the automatic defence "where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises."

So given that the householder is the owner or has given permission, then the bib aren't really going to turn out to issue unnecessary obstruction report on summons which has to go to magistrates court, fpn not applicable iirc. Reckon someone on Dudley's council staff is being a bit above themselves.

[ModernAndy]

FiF said:

jhfozzy said:

First hit on Google.

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/resident/parking-roads/ro...

DMBC said:

Road Markings for Vehicle Crossings / H Bar Road Markings

Occasionally, when a Vehicle Crossing has been installed, there is a follow up call to request a white "H" mark. The decision as to whether a "H" mark is provided is made by the Traffic & Transportation Division. "H" marks are used for properties adjacent to public buildings - e.g. schools, offices, shops - the distance from such buildings is not specific and is dependant upon other environmental factors. "H" marks are not available for residential exclusive areas.

What is a 'H' Bar road marking?
It is a road marking, shaped like an elongated 'H' which is placed across a vehicular access or driveway. It is used to remind drivers that it is illegal to park in front of dropped kerb driveways.

Please note that this does not mean that all dropped kerb driveways are eligible to be highlighted with an advisory white "H" line.

How long can the marking be?
The marking is only intended to mark out the width of the driveway, and as such will only be provided from a point where the kerbs start sloping down (usually 1 metre from the edge of the driveway).

Can I use the 'H' bar to reserve a parking space for my own vehicle?
The marking is provided solely to highlight the presence of a driveway. If you park your own vehicle there, it devalues the meaning of the marking, and shows to other drivers that you do not need access to the driveway. 'H' bars which are continually parked over by the resident could be removed.

Can they be legally enforced?
'H' bars are a nationally recognised marking, and give West Midlands Police additional evidence to allow them to issue a fixed penalty notice for obstruction. Please note that, for enforcement,the presence of a white "H" line is not necessary because the law is being broken every time parking takes place in front of any dropped kerb driveway. The enforcement of obstruction of dropped kerb driveways remains with the Police.

Dudley's own Parking Attendants do not have the power to issue penalty notices for obstruction.

And yet the Traffic Management Act 2004 which specifically deals with parking in front of a dropped kerb in part 6 section 86 allow s the automatic defence "where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises."

So given that the householder is the owner or has given permission, then the bib aren't really going to turn out to issue unnecessary obstruction report on summons which has to go to magistrates court, fpn not applicable iirc. Reckon someone on Dudley's council staff is being a bit above themselves.

I'm unsure whether they'd actually have a remit for this but would there perhaps be a bylaw in Dudley (or elsewhere) which states that it's an offence regardless of consent?

edited to add: hadn't realised there was an amendment to allow the home-owner to use the space as they saw fit which obviously makes an earlier post of mine incorrect.

Edited by ModernAndy on Wednesday 4th November 19:42

[FiF]

ModernAndy said:

I'm unsure whether they'd actually have a remit for this but would there perhaps be a bylaw in Dudley (or elsewhere) which states that it's an offence regardless of consent?

edited to add: hadn't realised there was an amendment to allow the home-owner to use the space as they saw fit which obviously makes an earlier post of mine incorrect.

Edited by ModernAndy on Wednesday 4th November 19:42

Without looking into it in detail, Dudley's have civil traffic enforcement, which means that under the harmonisation of civil enforcement in England this is done under the above mentioned Traffic Management Act 2004. See link

However aiui for Dudley to be able to enforce parking in front of dropped kerbs and double parking without creating Traffic Regulation Orders then in their application they have to make a special request for a Special Enforcement Area to be granted to them by the Secretary of State. It's within the Statutory Guidance from the Secretary of State to Councils, this is found in a link within the above linked page. See para 3.3 etc.

If Dudley are saying this still lies with the Police then one assumes they didn't apply for special status.