Fined for 81kmh in an 80kmh limit
Discussion
A friend (really!) has received a speeding fine for doing 81kmh in an 80kmh zone in Switzerland.
According to the letter, the contravention took place back in May this year, but the fine has only just arrived now. A few questions spring to mind:
1. How accurate can their speed detection equipment be that they can prosecute for less than 1MPH over the limit?
2. Don't they apply some sort of tolerance factor like we do in the UK? Surely 81kmh shows that she was attempting to observe the limit.
3. What's with the delay? Is there no time limit for their equivalent of a NIP?
4. Does she have any prospect of appealing the fine based on any of the above?
It strikes me that the 6 months delay between "offence" and notification could have allowed my friend to rack up more fines over the six month period without having any knowledge that she was even breaking the law. Plenty more similar letters might be on the way. My friend is Italian and travels between her family home in northern Italy and her workplace in Germany on a fairly regular basis (at least once a month).
My friend is more bemused than anything else. The fine (on this instance) is only 20 swiss francs, but it's the principle of it that gets me. She might have many more coming, and from what I understand, the fines increase for repeat offenders!
According to the letter, the contravention took place back in May this year, but the fine has only just arrived now. A few questions spring to mind:
1. How accurate can their speed detection equipment be that they can prosecute for less than 1MPH over the limit?
2. Don't they apply some sort of tolerance factor like we do in the UK? Surely 81kmh shows that she was attempting to observe the limit.
3. What's with the delay? Is there no time limit for their equivalent of a NIP?
4. Does she have any prospect of appealing the fine based on any of the above?
It strikes me that the 6 months delay between "offence" and notification could have allowed my friend to rack up more fines over the six month period without having any knowledge that she was even breaking the law. Plenty more similar letters might be on the way. My friend is Italian and travels between her family home in northern Italy and her workplace in Germany on a fairly regular basis (at least once a month).
My friend is more bemused than anything else. The fine (on this instance) is only 20 swiss francs, but it's the principle of it that gets me. She might have many more coming, and from what I understand, the fines increase for repeat offenders!
Edited by Sushifiend on Thursday 12th November 12:59
https://www.ch.ch/en/driving-over-speed-limit/
However, it is very likely that she was actually doing more than 81kmh.
The Swiss apply a technical failure margin to radar/laser detected speeding.
See - http://zurichexpats.com/speeding-in-switzerland-th...
and - http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&pre...
She might find this article about cross-border enforcement useful.
http://etsc.eu/faq-eu-cross-border-enforcement-dir...
€20 is small beer. If she travels regularly through Switzerland it might be wise to pay it.
And pay close attention to her speedo on future trips.
However, it is very likely that she was actually doing more than 81kmh.
The Swiss apply a technical failure margin to radar/laser detected speeding.
See - http://zurichexpats.com/speeding-in-switzerland-th...
and - http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&pre...
She might find this article about cross-border enforcement useful.
http://etsc.eu/faq-eu-cross-border-enforcement-dir...
€20 is small beer. If she travels regularly through Switzerland it might be wise to pay it.
And pay close attention to her speedo on future trips.
Edited by Red Devil on Thursday 12th November 02:27
Thanks Red Devil. I had already looked at the first link, but I don't see anything on her letter about the Sicherheitsmarge shown on the ticket on the zurichexpats link. That's what I would have expected to see really. The letter does mention "Effective speed" in Italian, so I guess that may not be the directly measured speed.
Here's the letter she posted on Facebook. I've pixellated the identifying marks (basically the date and time):
Here's the letter she posted on Facebook. I've pixellated the identifying marks (basically the date and time):
Red Devil said:
https://www.ch.ch/en/driving-over-speed-limit/
However, it is very likely that she was actually doing more than 81kmh.
The Swiss apply a technical failure margin to radar/laser detected speeding.
See - http://zurichexpats.com/speeding-in-switzerland-th...
and - http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&pre...
She might find this article about cross-border enforcement useful.
http://etsc.eu/faq-eu-cross-border-enforcement-dir...
€20 is small beer. If she travels regularly through Switzerland it might be wise to pay it.
And pay close attention to her speedo on future trips.
20 euro fine for takinng your feet off the pedals on a bicycle??However, it is very likely that she was actually doing more than 81kmh.
The Swiss apply a technical failure margin to radar/laser detected speeding.
See - http://zurichexpats.com/speeding-in-switzerland-th...
and - http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&pre...
She might find this article about cross-border enforcement useful.
http://etsc.eu/faq-eu-cross-border-enforcement-dir...
€20 is small beer. If she travels regularly through Switzerland it might be wise to pay it.
And pay close attention to her speedo on future trips.
Edited by Red Devil on Thursday 12th November 02:27
ModernAndy said:
EskimoArapaho said:
Well, if you're not allowed to flush the toilet in your flat after 11pm, it's not that surprising. Horrible place.
what? Is that an actual Swiss law?[http://www.thelocal.ch/20130522/rules-and-regulat...
Vaud said:
ModernAndy said:
EskimoArapaho said:
Well, if you're not allowed to flush the toilet in your flat after 11pm, it's not that surprising. Horrible place.
what? Is that an actual Swiss law?[http://www.thelocal.ch/20130522/rules-and-regulat...
CGJJ said:
How did they get her address?
Are DVLA sharing information now or was this in a hire car?
Might have been given away in the first posting, at least it is nothing to do with hire cars or the DVLA. Are DVLA sharing information now or was this in a hire car?
Sushifiend said:
My friend is Italian and travels between her family home in northern Italy and her workplace in Germany on a fairly regular basis (at least once a month).
Sushifiend said:
Thanks Red Devil. I had already looked at the first link, but I don't see anything on her letter about the Sicherheitsmarge shown on the ticket on the zurichexpats link. That's what I would have expected to see really. The letter does mention "Effective speed" in Italian, so I guess that may not be the directly measured speed.
My guess is that Velocità effettiva = Gemessene Geschwindigkeit minus Sicherheitsmarge - i.e. the net result after the margin (not shown) has been deducted. Do you know where she was caught? The letter being in written in Italian suggests it was in the Canton of Ticino where it is the official language.
Red Devil said:
Sushifiend said:
Thanks Red Devil. I had already looked at the first link, but I don't see anything on her letter about the Sicherheitsmarge shown on the ticket on the zurichexpats link. That's what I would have expected to see really. The letter does mention "Effective speed" in Italian, so I guess that may not be the directly measured speed.
My guess is that Velocità effettiva = Gemessene Geschwindigkeit minus Sicherheitsmarge - i.e. the net result after the margin (not shown) has been deducted. Do you know where she was caught? The letter being in written in Italian suggests it was in the Canton of Ticino where it is the official language.
My interest in this is not just idle curiosity - I may be heading down through Switzerland in a few weeks time and I'm not particularly keen on being sent demands for cash through the post! I've driven in Switzerland on quite a few occasions over the years but not in the last 8 years or so. I've never paid particular attention to my speed (no more than I would in the UK) and never received a fine. Have many speed traps sprung up there over the last decade, or are they just chasing people now? I'm trying to determine whether I was just lucky in the past or whether there's a greater likelihood of being caught or prosecuted in 2015 vs early 2000s.
Sushifiend said:
Have many speed traps sprung up there over the last decade, or are they just chasing people now? I'm trying to determine whether I was just lucky in the past or whether there's a greater likelihood of being caught or prosecuted in 2015 vs early 2000s.
There are a few more than say, 1999. Generally grey, few, if any warning and on major roads. e.g. the link along side lake Geneva has a fair few.
Not so many on side roads / mountain roads, at least in the French speaking cantons that I am most familiar with.
Given their tolerance is ~0, it's just best not to speed in Switzerland.
Wanna know how bad it is in Switzerland?
Mate was photographing a new Land Rover for JLR. Where they wanted to photograph was a restricted to traffic country lane with fantastic views.
So informed the authorities, got the correct paperwork for access for the photo shoot, drove down and parked in a small pulloff in the country lane specified making sure it was not restricting access in any way, parked over looking the mountains and started taking photographs.
However the the lane was also used by dog walkers.
He noticed that the Swiss LR dealer guy who was with him was counting how many walkers passed the Discovery. When he asked him why, the reply was that I'm just going to have an estimate how many complaints there will be because your parked in this road.
The guy counted 47 persons passing, he estimated 35 would make a complaint.
Within an hour the Police were there, and though understanding and after being shown the paperwork to say they could be there still politely asked them to move on......
The Police had had 43 complaints.
Mate was photographing a new Land Rover for JLR. Where they wanted to photograph was a restricted to traffic country lane with fantastic views.
So informed the authorities, got the correct paperwork for access for the photo shoot, drove down and parked in a small pulloff in the country lane specified making sure it was not restricting access in any way, parked over looking the mountains and started taking photographs.
However the the lane was also used by dog walkers.
He noticed that the Swiss LR dealer guy who was with him was counting how many walkers passed the Discovery. When he asked him why, the reply was that I'm just going to have an estimate how many complaints there will be because your parked in this road.
The guy counted 47 persons passing, he estimated 35 would make a complaint.
Within an hour the Police were there, and though understanding and after being shown the paperwork to say they could be there still politely asked them to move on......
The Police had had 43 complaints.
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