Tenancy Deposit woes...
Discussion
Overview;
Stepfather rents a flat on an AST beginning August 2013.
Pays 2 months rent as deposit, and first months rent July 2013.
Continues paying rent until Feb 2014.
In approximately October 2013, myself and partner move into the flat 'temporarily' as Stepfather isn't using it whilst we look for our own place (we had to move out of somewhere sharpish)
I speak in person to the LL, and he is quite happy for us to be there etc, we quite like it and after another discussion say we will take it on and start paying him rent directly in Feb 2014, he says he will transfer the deposit and tenancy to our names.
Somewhat naively the LL & I's discussion didn't result in any paperwork ever getting done so no written tenancy agreement has existed in my name (there is apparently one in the stepfathers name but this is no where to be found).
Fast forward to this year, we receive a letter from a Solicitors advising us the LL is no longer allowed to act on behalf of the legal owner of the premises and all dealings are to be with them.
We gave 2 months notice to move out shortly before this with the tenancy to end 31st October, this is advised to the solicitors and the lady who is representing the property owner (we met her when the downstairs tenants move out).
We move out, no issues with the flat etc and hand the keys back to aforementioned lady.
Now the issues start, the solicitors won't speak to us (as in don't respond to emails/calls), I have told the lady representative this and asked her to ensure they contact me by x date several times and nothing happens.
The deposit obviously never got protected (I checked).
We are still in touch with the downstairs neighbours and they have exactly the same issues with no contact, they have even been in to the solicitors and gotten no where (they moved out 2 months ago)!
Moving forwards I fully expect to have to go to court to get the deposit back but whom do I start sending letters to ? The Solicitor, the owner of the property (who lives in Dubai afaik) or the original LL ?
I have probably been a bit naive in never pushing for the tenancy stuff in writing but I get the impression I could have a fist full of paperwork and it would make diddly squat difference at this point !
Stepfather rents a flat on an AST beginning August 2013.
Pays 2 months rent as deposit, and first months rent July 2013.
Continues paying rent until Feb 2014.
In approximately October 2013, myself and partner move into the flat 'temporarily' as Stepfather isn't using it whilst we look for our own place (we had to move out of somewhere sharpish)
I speak in person to the LL, and he is quite happy for us to be there etc, we quite like it and after another discussion say we will take it on and start paying him rent directly in Feb 2014, he says he will transfer the deposit and tenancy to our names.
Somewhat naively the LL & I's discussion didn't result in any paperwork ever getting done so no written tenancy agreement has existed in my name (there is apparently one in the stepfathers name but this is no where to be found).
Fast forward to this year, we receive a letter from a Solicitors advising us the LL is no longer allowed to act on behalf of the legal owner of the premises and all dealings are to be with them.
We gave 2 months notice to move out shortly before this with the tenancy to end 31st October, this is advised to the solicitors and the lady who is representing the property owner (we met her when the downstairs tenants move out).
We move out, no issues with the flat etc and hand the keys back to aforementioned lady.
Now the issues start, the solicitors won't speak to us (as in don't respond to emails/calls), I have told the lady representative this and asked her to ensure they contact me by x date several times and nothing happens.
The deposit obviously never got protected (I checked).
We are still in touch with the downstairs neighbours and they have exactly the same issues with no contact, they have even been in to the solicitors and gotten no where (they moved out 2 months ago)!
Moving forwards I fully expect to have to go to court to get the deposit back but whom do I start sending letters to ? The Solicitor, the owner of the property (who lives in Dubai afaik) or the original LL ?
I have probably been a bit naive in never pushing for the tenancy stuff in writing but I get the impression I could have a fist full of paperwork and it would make diddly squat difference at this point !
Jimmyarm said:
Overview;
Fast forward to this year, we receive a letter from a Solicitors advising us the LL is no longer allowed to act on behalf of the legal owner of the premises and all dealings are to be with them.
I know you don't have it, but presuming the contract is the same as the other tenants, who is named as the Landlord on the agreement? Was there an agent?Fast forward to this year, we receive a letter from a Solicitors advising us the LL is no longer allowed to act on behalf of the legal owner of the premises and all dealings are to be with them.
What did the letter say with regards to the tenancies in place?
I'll ask the neighbours what theirs says, I suspect it is just the original 'LL's name though.
The letter from the Solicitors was fairly brief, it basically asked us to contact them and that the 'LL' had no legal authority to do with the premises any more and all contact should be made with the Solicitors.
As fair as I understand the situation the 'll' is a developer, his (ex)wifes relative owns the house which the 'll' converted into 2 flats. Him and the wife are divorcing and he is no longer allowed to have anything to do with the property.
The solictors are dealing with the divorce afaik.
The letter from the Solicitors was fairly brief, it basically asked us to contact them and that the 'LL' had no legal authority to do with the premises any more and all contact should be made with the Solicitors.
As fair as I understand the situation the 'll' is a developer, his (ex)wifes relative owns the house which the 'll' converted into 2 flats. Him and the wife are divorcing and he is no longer allowed to have anything to do with the property.
The solictors are dealing with the divorce afaik.
Edited by Jimmyarm on Monday 16th November 16:08
Slight update.
Spoke to the downstairs tenants, it turns out they never had a written tenancy agreement either... They have however received their deposit back.
I am no closer though it seems, I finally managed to speak to the solicitor who in a roundabout way said she needed confirmation that the person that paid the deposit was happy for it to be refunded to me.
This was provided about three weeks ago, despite being promised a response by the monday before the one just gone I have heard nothing and unsurprisingly cannot get hold the the only person at the soicitors who will deal with the case.
I emailed them yesterday saying that unless the deposit was back in my bank account by the end of the week I will be beginning a small claims action to recover it and I will also be looking for the judge to investigate whether compensation should be paid under the TDPS guidelines. I got the 'receptionist' to confirm they had received the email (she even said she had read it)
So new questions;
Presumably I can begin the claim against the Solicitors as they are acting as agents of the owner of the premises ? (they did after all send me a letter stating that all dealings should be with them, if tenancy had continued I would have to have contact them about issues etc)
Will a judge just take my word for it that an 'oral' agreement was in place regarding renting the flat ? Obviously I have bank statements showing payments to the original landlord (or actually the landlords 'agent' it seems)
Regarding the TDPS, presumably the Solicitors should have ensured the deposit was protected as soon as they took over 'managing' the premises for the landlord ? I'm not overly interested in pushing for compensation but it seems like a good stick to poke them with to get a response !
Can I submit a claim for the ridiculous amount of time I am having to spend sorting this out ? I have phoned the solicitors at least once a day for nearly 4 weeks etc !
ETA; last question I promise ! On the MCOL site, you only get 1080 words to put in, I take it this is just a precis of what you are claiming for and why ? The full facts of the case are then given to the court if it gets to that ?
Spoke to the downstairs tenants, it turns out they never had a written tenancy agreement either... They have however received their deposit back.
I am no closer though it seems, I finally managed to speak to the solicitor who in a roundabout way said she needed confirmation that the person that paid the deposit was happy for it to be refunded to me.
This was provided about three weeks ago, despite being promised a response by the monday before the one just gone I have heard nothing and unsurprisingly cannot get hold the the only person at the soicitors who will deal with the case.
I emailed them yesterday saying that unless the deposit was back in my bank account by the end of the week I will be beginning a small claims action to recover it and I will also be looking for the judge to investigate whether compensation should be paid under the TDPS guidelines. I got the 'receptionist' to confirm they had received the email (she even said she had read it)
So new questions;
Presumably I can begin the claim against the Solicitors as they are acting as agents of the owner of the premises ? (they did after all send me a letter stating that all dealings should be with them, if tenancy had continued I would have to have contact them about issues etc)
Will a judge just take my word for it that an 'oral' agreement was in place regarding renting the flat ? Obviously I have bank statements showing payments to the original landlord (or actually the landlords 'agent' it seems)
Regarding the TDPS, presumably the Solicitors should have ensured the deposit was protected as soon as they took over 'managing' the premises for the landlord ? I'm not overly interested in pushing for compensation but it seems like a good stick to poke them with to get a response !
Can I submit a claim for the ridiculous amount of time I am having to spend sorting this out ? I have phoned the solicitors at least once a day for nearly 4 weeks etc !
ETA; last question I promise ! On the MCOL site, you only get 1080 words to put in, I take it this is just a precis of what you are claiming for and why ? The full facts of the case are then given to the court if it gets to that ?
Edited by Jimmyarm on Tuesday 15th December 17:00
Jimmyarm said:
ETA; last question I promise ! On the MCOL site, you only get 1080 words to put in, I take it this is just a precis of what you are claiming for and why ? The full facts of the case are then given to the court if it gets to that ?
1080 words is more than enough. Write a factual timeline. No emotions. Facts. 99% of cases can be summed up this way.MCOL is quiet informal. Just keep to facts and no legalese.
e.g. "On Sept 24 I transferred £xxx to Mr A to his bank account"
carreauchompeur said:
I presume the original tenancy would predate the need for the TDS? If not I would be keen to take the b
ds to the cleaners over this!
Anything after April 2007 should be in a scheme apart from some exceptions which wouldn't seem to apply here.ds to the cleaners over this!I guess we are pretty fortunate to not be 'desperate' for the money as we bought a house =) It is however new shed money for me and I keep spying cheap land cruisers and not being able to pull the trigger which is annoying !
What is annoying me most about the whole situation is the complete lack of communication from the solicitor, she is a complete feck wit ! Unfortunately I can't speak to her boss as she is the boss AFAIK =(
I would have issued the ultimatum of going to small claims sooner but have been a bit (too) lenient given the slightly out of the ordinary circumstances I guess.
Jimmyarm said:
What is annoying me most about the whole situation is the complete lack of communication from the solicitor, she is a complete feck wit ! Unfortunately I can't speak to her boss as she is the boss AFAIK =(
You can ask for a timeline to resolution, if not received then you will be lodging a complaint with the SRA in the absence of an appropriate complaints process / conflict of interest.?(maybe, IANAL)
Vaud said:
You can ask for a timeline to resolution, if not received then you will be lodging a complaint with the SRA in the absence of an appropriate complaints process / conflict of interest.?
(maybe, IANAL)
I did have a look at the sra website and it all seems focused on when the solicitor is working for you, not when they are working for another.(maybe, IANAL)
It gets worse...
Email from solicitors advising they are no longer instructed.
Give me details of new solicitor.
Speak to him and he has noto had the file yet etc...
Jesus wept !
Eta; Any recommendations for a solicitor in the Winchester area ?
Email from solicitors advising they are no longer instructed.
Give me details of new solicitor.
Speak to him and he has noto had the file yet etc...
Jesus wept !
Eta; Any recommendations for a solicitor in the Winchester area ?
Edited by Jimmyarm on Thursday 17th December 16:28
Please carry out a search with the Land Registry on ownership, whilst the same can be carried out online, I myself have had more favourable results using the telephone. Look for results of ownership both prior to conversion, and after conversion into flats.
Look up also the original planning application, again ownership, who submitted planning application etc. etc.
Deposit and rental monies, what bank account details were the monies paid into, the account holder, either an individual or a company, if the latter carry out a search via Companies House or Duedil link https://www.duedil.com/.
A chat with your local council's private housing office might throw up past history.
Lastly, a tenancy agreement does not have to be in writing, so a verbal agreement with regular monthly bank payments will support your case.
Look up also the original planning application, again ownership, who submitted planning application etc. etc.
Deposit and rental monies, what bank account details were the monies paid into, the account holder, either an individual or a company, if the latter carry out a search via Companies House or Duedil link https://www.duedil.com/.
A chat with your local council's private housing office might throw up past history.
Lastly, a tenancy agreement does not have to be in writing, so a verbal agreement with regular monthly bank payments will support your case.
Thank you.
I have kind of thrown my toys out of the pram this evening and demanded the landlords name and UK address from the solicitors and the lady we gave the keys back to.
She agreed to get me the details tomorrow and obviously I will have to wait to here from the original solicitors.
From what I can gleam looking on the land registry will give a name that perhaps isn't the right one ! There may be a foreign owner involve l...
I have kind of thrown my toys out of the pram this evening and demanded the landlords name and UK address from the solicitors and the lady we gave the keys back to.
She agreed to get me the details tomorrow and obviously I will have to wait to here from the original solicitors.
From what I can gleam looking on the land registry will give a name that perhaps isn't the right one ! There may be a foreign owner involve l...
Jimmyarm said:
Thank you.
I have kind of thrown my toys out of the pram this evening and demanded the landlords name and UK address from the solicitors and the lady we gave the keys back to.
She agreed to get me the details tomorrow and obviously I will have to wait to here from the original solicitors.
From what I can gleam looking on the land registry will give a name that perhaps isn't the right one ! There may be a foreign owner involve l...
You need to obtain proof on who the original Deposit was paid to, either via a written receipt or a bank statement etc. etc.I have kind of thrown my toys out of the pram this evening and demanded the landlords name and UK address from the solicitors and the lady we gave the keys back to.
She agreed to get me the details tomorrow and obviously I will have to wait to here from the original solicitors.
From what I can gleam looking on the land registry will give a name that perhaps isn't the right one ! There may be a foreign owner involve l...
Apart from a landlord, others who receive tenancy Deposits, agents, solicitors etc. etc. do so as "stakeholders", the same making a contractual agreement between themselves the landlord and the tenant.
The Deposit is held and retained by the "stakeholder", and is only released by either the tenant and landlord agreeing how much should be refunded, or following a Court's decision , or an approved TDPS to pay the money to them to await a dispute resolution.
If the stakeholder refuses to refund the Deposit, then you should make a request through the courts for the same.
Do you mean to the original person the deposit was paid to ?
We recieved quite clear instructions in writing from a solicitors that's he should not be dealt with anymore (this was before the tenancy ended).
I have provided bank statements eto to this solicitor and other written evidence and the fruits of my labour were to tell me they were no longer instructed.
I literally got a 4 line email out of them after phoning them and emailing them for nearly two months.
We recieved quite clear instructions in writing from a solicitors that's he should not be dealt with anymore (this was before the tenancy ended).
I have provided bank statements eto to this solicitor and other written evidence and the fruits of my labour were to tell me they were no longer instructed.
I literally got a 4 line email out of them after phoning them and emailing them for nearly two months.
I feel there may be some confusion here so I will summarise;
Stepfather rents a flat from a person who it turns out is an agent for the owner of the premises .
He is not using flat and we move in 'temporarily'
We like it and agree with the agent that we will take over the tenancy, he agrees that is fine and deposit and tenancy agreement to will be transferred into our names.
We pay rent to agent for nearly 24 months.
2 months before we move out a letter from a doctors is recieved saying we must not deal with the original agent.
Move out, can'tthe fetch deposit back and no one will tell us anow address to sue the landlord proper.
Stepfather rents a flat from a person who it turns out is an agent for the owner of the premises .
He is not using flat and we move in 'temporarily'
We like it and agree with the agent that we will take over the tenancy, he agrees that is fine and deposit and tenancy agreement to will be transferred into our names.
We pay rent to agent for nearly 24 months.
2 months before we move out a letter from a doctors is recieved saying we must not deal with the original agent.
Move out, can'tthe fetch deposit back and no one will tell us anow address to sue the landlord proper.
pork911 said:
lots of issues, but firstly you appear to be attempting to recover a deposit you didn't pay...from someone who may well not have ever received it...or the rent...or the keys?
I know, it sounds dodgy as hell 
The issues are all down to the owner of the premises instructing the original solicitor to tell us not to deal with the original person anymore and that they had no authority to have anything to do with the property or the tenancy agreement any more.
The deposit may have paid by another originally but, we have provided written confirmation from him that the deposit should have been transferred into our names when we took over the tenancy and that he gives up any claim on it and that it should be refunded to me.
I presume that it would not be that uncommon for the deposit to not come from the tenants bank account in the instance of Mum & Dad paying it for first time renters etc, in fact I remember my dad paying a rental deposit and the first months rent for me back before the tenancy deposit protection schemes were introduced, I received the deposit back when that tenancy ended.
don't jump in making a claim against the solicitors - they are highly unlikely to be the managing agents and anyway weren't during your tenancy - they (appear) just to act for the owner - an owner you might not even have a claim against anyway
what paperwork do you have at all? no tenancy agreement for you or stepfather i think (?), what about rent book/s, receipts etc? any letters at all? how was the deposit and rents paid? from who / to who? do you have council tax and utility bills in your name for this property?
what paperwork do you have at all? no tenancy agreement for you or stepfather i think (?), what about rent book/s, receipts etc? any letters at all? how was the deposit and rents paid? from who / to who? do you have council tax and utility bills in your name for this property?
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