Pulled over for allegedly speeding-any help/views?

[Freedomfighter]

Hi guys, I passed my full motorcycle license this year after having scooters for the last 15 years on and off. Bought a bike last week, (Honda crf250l). Took it out today for a 4 hour leisure ride and had no issues all day. 5 mins from home, a traffic car comes thundering up behind me with the blues and twos on and pulls me over. First thing they say is, "we noticed you didn't have any L plates and wanted to check what license you held". "No problem officer, I hold a full license, here it is. Brought it out with me to be on the safe side". (Bear in mind the bike is a dual sport on road/off road bike. Looks like a scrambler which the kids love to nick etc). Officer then says " ok that checks out, is this your bike?". "Yes sir, bought last week, today is iher first outing." Officer checks then says "ok that's fine. But you were speeding." I said really? I've just gone through two speed cameras and they never went off. He said I slowed for these. Ok, maybe I wasn't bang on 30mph. He then says I was doing at least 50mph in a 30mph. absolute bkS. Then says he's going to report me and one of three things will happen. Speed awareness course, fine and points or court. I said oh ok no problem. He then said, "I won't report you for doing 50 il report you for doing 45". Ok, well was I doing 45 or was I doing 50? I've just checked and as it was a 30mph zone looks like I won't get speed awareness. 10% plus 9mph takes me to 42mph threshold so if he reports me for 45 looks like a fine and 3 points? Any idea as to how the officer can report me for 45mph and not 50mph? Why complain I here you say? Well I don't think I was doing 50mph or even 45mph. 40mph tops. I was following traffic which was at a constant speed so I wasn't gaining on the car in front, plus it's obvious they pulled me over due to the bike I was riding maybe thinking is stolen it or didn't have the correct license. Also, I check my mirrors a lot and they weren't even behind me up until they pulled me over I mean they were going some so dos they even have any proof I was speeding if at all?? My take is they spotted the bike and thought well give him a pull and raced to catch up with me from wherever they were when they spotted me, which definitely wasn't directly behind me. What say the masses? Accept I was maybe doing 10mph over and take the 3 points and fine? I would be happy to take the speed awareness course but doesn't seem like it will be offered. I just can't work out if I was doing 50mph like he said how can he then say il report you for doing 45mph. Surely if you had proof you'd have to do me for the higher speed?? Bloody confused

Edited by Freedomfighter on Sunday 10th January 16:40

[SS2.]

At an alleged 45mph, you'll almost certainly be offered a FPN - 3 points & £100.

Had they gone with 50mph, a visit to court would have been more likely which, upon conviction, would have incurred higher penalties.

[T5R+]

Hang on, where is the proof?

I respect the BIB as much as the next person but how did they ascertain your speed- estimated?

[Sump]

I'd like to say a camera would be ideal but if they saw it they'd probably seize for evidence.

Perhaps fit a hidden one. No use now but for future reference. No idea the legality but I think contacting a good solicitor would be sound advice as you need proof for a conviction ? Did you sign anything ?

[SS2.]

T5R+ said:

Hang on, where is the proof?

Two officers is all that's required - one decides the target vehicle is speeding, the other corroborates.

Anything else (like their own speedo, for instance) would be a bonus.

[Freedomfighter]

So they are happy to report me for doing 45mph when they said I was doing 50mph? Doesn't sit well with me. If I was doing 50 I'd rather you hit me with the 50mph penalty. I wasn't doing 50mph and they know it. So it looks like the two officers agreed I was speeding and that is enough? Also, having had time to think, they said they were out today on a raising awareness scheme and would I like to go on some training for £50 with a police officer, so it seems to me they probably had to go back to the station and say "yes guv we done x amount for speeding and offered the training to them."

[SS2.]

Freedomfighter said:

So they are happy to report me for doing 45mph when they said I was doing 50mph? Doesn't sit well with me.

It might not sit well but an alleged 45mph is likely to result in a lot less pain than an alleged 50mph.

[Freedomfighter]

SS2. said:

It might not sit well but an alleged 45mph is likely to result in a lot less pain than an alleged 50mph.

I agree, but my point is, was I doing 45 or 50? How can an officer report me for doing 45 if I wasn't doing 45? That's factually not correct. If you think well the officer was being lenient, my argument is why not give me a strong telling off and wish me well as a new biker (well to geared bikes anyway), that's being lenient. I don't know. 3 points at a minimum I suppose then...

[V8LM]

If you were doing 50 then at some point you must have been doing 45 (although not necessarily above the speed limit at the time).

[Ki3r]

SS2. said:

Two officers is all that's required - one decides the target vehicle is speeding, the other corroborates.

Anything else (like their own speedo, for instance) would be a bonus.

Don't even need two officers. (I think in Scotland you may though).

OP you've said you don't think you were doing 50. How do you know you weren't dong 50?

[SS2.]

Ki3r said:

SS2. said:

Two officers is all that's required - one decides the target vehicle is speeding, the other corroborates.

Anything else (like their own speedo, for instance) would be a bonus.

Don't even need two officers.

On a motorway (in England & Wales), no.

On any other road, corroboration is required. This could be one officer and a speed measuring device, or two officers.

[Ki3r]

SS2. said:

On a motorway (in England & Wales), no.

On any other road, corroboration is required. This could be one officer and a speed measuring device, or two officers.

I may have misread what was said, of course there needs to be some kind other method, I thought you (I think?) were saying you need two officers plus the speedo or something.

[Some Gump]

Wibble username. Chav bike. Dubious sounding story where the coppers are bent. Custard.

[SS2.]

Ki3r said:

I may have misread what was said, of course there needs to be some kind other method, I thought you (I think?) were saying you need two officers plus the speedo or something.

Not at all.

Two officers would be sufficient, as would one officer and a device.

I said that evidence from two officers and a device would be a bonus ie it would be exceed the minimum requirement and add to the weight of evidence against the accused.

[Bigends]

SS2. said:

Ki3r said:

I may have misread what was said, of course there needs to be some kind other method, I thought you (I think?) were saying you need two officers plus the speedo or something.

Not at all.

Two officers would be sufficient, as would one officer and a device.

I said that evidence from two officers and a device would be a bonus ie it would be exceed the minimum requirement and add to the weight of evidence against the accused.

Without a speedo or some other measuring device involved how would they be able to put a figure on the drivers speed. They can both form the opinion in relation to excess speed of course - but how would they come up with the numbers?

[Ki3r]

SS2. said:

Not at all.

Two officers would be sufficient, as would one officer and a device.

I said that evidence from two officers and a device would be a bonus ie it would be exceed the minimum requirement and add to the weight of evidence against the accused.

I'm blaming being tired for getting completely the wrong end of the stick.

[SS2.]

Bigends said:

Without a speedo or some other measuring device involved how would they be able to put a figure on the drivers speed. They can both form the opinion in relation to excess speed of course - but how would they come up with the numbers?

They would say their skills, their training, their experience.

If they were credible, if the margin of the alleged excess speed was not low, if the defendant failed to discredit / disprove the officers' evidence, then it's likely that the court would convict.

[tumble dryer]

Some Gump said:

Wibble username. Chav bike. Dubious sounding story where the coppers are bent. Custard.

Really??

Looking for someone's boots to fill...?

[V8LM]

SS2. said:

Bigends said:

Without a speedo or some other measuring device involved how would they be able to put a figure on the drivers speed. They can both form the opinion in relation to excess speed of course - but how would they come up with the numbers?

They would say their skills, their training, their experience.

If they were credible, if the margin of the alleged excess speed was not low, if the defendant failed to discredit / disprove the officers' evidence, then it's likely that the court would convict.

And a reason why they put 45 instead of 50.

[SS2.]

V8LM said:

And a reason why they put 45 instead of 50.

We don't know that the officers in this case didn't have a video or make a note of their speedo reading as they followed the bike but yes, I see where you're coming from with that.