Wills, one for the legal eagles.
Discussion
Straight to the point, brother & two sisters are equal beneficiaries to deceased mothers estate, estate consists of house to be sold & proceeds divided equally.Eldest sister is named as executor,house has been valued by 3 estate agents variying from X-Y, 3 sales (all at the mid point or above, but slightly below the max price) have already fallen thro as eldest sister refuses to accept anything than the max. valuation,this has so far taken a year.Brother (yes me if you had'nt guessed) thinks this is unreasonable as most property sales are open to a bit of negotiation, and this could carry on indefinitley.My question is can the other two beneficiaries force a sale at what would be considered a fair price or is it soley at the discretion of the executor.Your comments looked forward to .
chippiepat said:
Straight to the point, brother & two sisters are equal beneficiaries to deceased mothers estate, estate consists of house to be sold & proceeds divided equally.Eldest sister is named as executor,house has been valued by 3 estate agents variying from X-Y, 3 sales (all at the mid point or above, but slightly below the max price) have already fallen thro as eldest sister refuses to accept anything than the max. valuation,this has so far taken a year.Brother (yes me if you had'nt guessed) thinks this is unreasonable as most property sales are open to a bit of negotiation, and this could carry on indefinitley.My question is can the other two beneficiaries force a sale at what would be considered a fair price or is it soley at the discretion of the executor.Your comments looked forward to .
I can't comment on the legal side of things, but you could pay a Chartered Surveryor (£200 at a guess) to have it valued properly and I would pretty much guarantee they will be lower than the max price provided by the Estate Agent. Use their report to then apply pressure to your sister. Sorry to hear your predicament.
Estate agent's valuations are only ever a guide, and mainly based on similar sale prices in the area. It is likely that the highest agent has given a higher valuation to entice you to place the property with him.
At the end of the day, a property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, therefore if you already have had 3 committed buyers ready to purchase, then their offers are a very good indication of the true market value.
You could of course demand a much higher price but then you have to wait until someone comes along who is willing to buy at that price.
On the legal side, I'm afraid that I don't know how easy it would be to force a sale based on 2 against 1.
Good luck.
Estate agent's valuations are only ever a guide, and mainly based on similar sale prices in the area. It is likely that the highest agent has given a higher valuation to entice you to place the property with him.
At the end of the day, a property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, therefore if you already have had 3 committed buyers ready to purchase, then their offers are a very good indication of the true market value.
You could of course demand a much higher price but then you have to wait until someone comes along who is willing to buy at that price.
On the legal side, I'm afraid that I don't know how easy it would be to force a sale based on 2 against 1.
Good luck.
Pretty sure you can't force an executor to do anything. They have certain legal responsibilities and you can try to have them removed, but that is a legal process which I have to assume is expensive.
Better all round to get to the negotiating table - the proposal above about compensating for the difference might be a useful option.
Better all round to get to the negotiating table - the proposal above about compensating for the difference might be a useful option.
chippiepat said:
3 sales (all at the mid point or above, but slightly below the max price) have already fallen thro as eldest sister refuses to accept anything than the max. valuation,this has so far taken a year.Brother (yes me if you had'nt guessed) thinks this is unreasonable as most property sales are open to a bit of negotiation, and this could carry on indefinitley.
Have the three of you sat down with the EA - you know, the professional you're paying to sell the house for you - and had a serious chat about reality and why three sales have fallen through?Are you sure it's just the price? You say "three sales have fallen through", but at what stage? Are we talking three rejected offers? Or three accepted offers that have failed to make it to exchange for some reason? If so, what is that reason? The buyers are clearly happy to offer a price that she's happy to accept, but then is something coming out of the woodwork in the survey or legals?
the sales have mainly fallen thro because,the property has minor defects, (I know they are minor as I've been in the building game for 40yrs) and when these show on a full surveyors report the purchaser tries to negotiate the price down.This, I think, is the name of the game & a compromise should be made that both parties are happy with,This I am willing to do but sis maintains that max. valuation price should be achieved.Trying to explain that this is ( I think ) not possible falls on deaf ears, we could wait another year & hopefully the way the property market is at the moment sell for a few grand more, but where do you draw the line?.I believe the duties of the executor are to see that the wishes of the deceased are carried out as intended & to see fair play(for want of a better expression) The intention was to divide all assets equally, so my question remains is it solely the executor that decides when a fair price for the sale of assets is achieved or can this be challenged by the other beneficeries?.
chippiepat said:
the sales have mainly fallen thro because,the property has minor defects, (I know they are minor as I've been in the building game for 40yrs) and when these show on a full surveyors report the purchaser tries to negotiate the price down.This, I think, is the name of the game & a compromise should be made that both parties are happy with,This I am willing to do but sis maintains that max. valuation price should be achieved.Trying to explain that this is ( I think ) not possible falls on deaf ears, we could wait another year & hopefully the way the property market is at the moment sell for a few grand more, but where do you draw the line?.I believe the duties of the executor are to see that the wishes of the deceased are carried out as intended & to see fair play(for want of a better expression) The intention was to divide all assets equally, so my question remains is it solely the executor that decides when a fair price for the sale of assets is achieved or can this be challenged by the other beneficeries?.
I suspect t it's more about hanging onto your parents.Try to refocus her on what she is trying to achieve. Is she trying to win a negotiation or achieve a sale, and help her move on with her life....
chippiepat said:
the sales have mainly fallen thro because,the property has minor defects, (I know they are minor as I've been in the building game for 40yrs) and when these show on a full surveyors report the purchaser tries to negotiate the price down.This, I think, is the name of the game & a compromise should be made that both parties are happy with,This I am willing to do but sis maintains that max. valuation price should be achieved.
Can I make a suggestion? You're a builder... If the defects are that minor, you fix 'em, with material costs to come out of the estate?Thanks for all your input, it's done me good just to air off somewhere.But my situation aside for a moment,take the same cenario, if executor of a will is in a position where money is no problem but other beneficeries could well do with it, is it right (or legal) that the executor could stop them receiving their rightful inheritance?
chippiepat said:
Thanks for all your input, it's done me good just to air off somewhere.But my situation aside for a moment,take the same cenario, if executor of a will is in a position where money is no problem but other beneficeries could well do with it, is it right (or legal) that the executor could stop them receiving their rightful inheritance?
That's not the case, she probably reads and hears on the news house prices are going up she won't take less then. What does zoopla say is that miles off what you have been offered?She probably she believes she is fulfilling her role as an executor.
I can understand your frustration and if you not careful agents sometimes give up pushing houses were vendors are unrealistic on offers.
This may assist your thoughts:
https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge/legal-ar...
Seems the quickest option, and likely cheapest, is to negotiate with her.
https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge/legal-ar...
Seems the quickest option, and likely cheapest, is to negotiate with her.
What sort of difference in price are we talking about? people wanting 10 grand off a 250,000 house? Barring in mind the "loss" is split 3 ways then maybe a discussion pointing out that she personally is only loosing 3 1/3 grand would calm her? Also as a builder shouldn't they be listening to your advice? If I was selling a car, knew nothing and my brother was a mechanic I'd probably listen to what he said!
My advice, which is worth what you've paid for it...
1. Take it off the market, now. When I see a property come up in a search that is hanging around I always, ALWAYS, think something is wrong with it. Don't put it back on till Easter, then have a launch event / open house, managed by an agent who wants to help you sell it.
2. Have the conversation with your sister to establish why she is not negotiating when the revised offers come in. (To be honest the agent also warrants a talking too to, as they should have been advising her the best price to do a deal in light of the survey reports)
3. Suggest a "works" party to freshen the place up, and to up date the decor. You all should also do or have done what ever work needs doing, if it is work you can do easily. Some of the surveyors reports I've seen have recommended re roofing or insulation and these are flagged more as negotiation points etc.
4. If she doesn't want to sell for emotional reasons then you could make the "works party" a bit of a celebration of your parent's lives in the house which might help. Certainly in this case you will have to decide whether your need for the cash is worth jeopardising the relationship with your sister.
5. If her reasons are only financial, i.e. to get the best price then point out to here that the estate should now be paying council tax (due from 6 months after probate, see here https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-em... there will be utility bills on going and mounting and she really needs to keep the gardens and exterior in excellent order to maintain kerb appeal, which really means employing someone. Depending on how low ball the post survey offers were she could now be costing the estate money as these bills will only continue to rise.
In this case, in your shoes I would give her 3 months from Easter weekend to get the best price then it has to go to auction to get the "best price" it can for the estate; 18 months after probate she has a duty as the executor to "stop the rot".
1. Take it off the market, now. When I see a property come up in a search that is hanging around I always, ALWAYS, think something is wrong with it. Don't put it back on till Easter, then have a launch event / open house, managed by an agent who wants to help you sell it.
2. Have the conversation with your sister to establish why she is not negotiating when the revised offers come in. (To be honest the agent also warrants a talking too to, as they should have been advising her the best price to do a deal in light of the survey reports)
3. Suggest a "works" party to freshen the place up, and to up date the decor. You all should also do or have done what ever work needs doing, if it is work you can do easily. Some of the surveyors reports I've seen have recommended re roofing or insulation and these are flagged more as negotiation points etc.
4. If she doesn't want to sell for emotional reasons then you could make the "works party" a bit of a celebration of your parent's lives in the house which might help. Certainly in this case you will have to decide whether your need for the cash is worth jeopardising the relationship with your sister.
5. If her reasons are only financial, i.e. to get the best price then point out to here that the estate should now be paying council tax (due from 6 months after probate, see here https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-em... there will be utility bills on going and mounting and she really needs to keep the gardens and exterior in excellent order to maintain kerb appeal, which really means employing someone. Depending on how low ball the post survey offers were she could now be costing the estate money as these bills will only continue to rise.
In this case, in your shoes I would give her 3 months from Easter weekend to get the best price then it has to go to auction to get the "best price" it can for the estate; 18 months after probate she has a duty as the executor to "stop the rot".
3 beneficiaries with 1 as the ex.
The beneficiaries if over 18 can direct the ex in a certain manner. It is the beneficiaries inheritance after all.
Ie they can all say we are happy to accept a sale price over £x for the sale of longacre.
If the ex ignores this then the ex will be in a difficult position as they must act in the best interests of the beneficiaries.
As the ex is a beneficary she still must act in the best interest of all beneficiaries - so a vote on what price to accept would seem sensible and force her to take into account the others wishes.
Probably best to write to her gently highlighting the concerns and way forward. She maybe under the wrong impression she must get the maximum price no matter what.
Im sure you dont want a family feud !
To remove or change the ex is only done on serious mismanagement by the courts. So work with her if at all possible.
The beneficiaries if over 18 can direct the ex in a certain manner. It is the beneficiaries inheritance after all.
Ie they can all say we are happy to accept a sale price over £x for the sale of longacre.
If the ex ignores this then the ex will be in a difficult position as they must act in the best interests of the beneficiaries.
As the ex is a beneficary she still must act in the best interest of all beneficiaries - so a vote on what price to accept would seem sensible and force her to take into account the others wishes.
Probably best to write to her gently highlighting the concerns and way forward. She maybe under the wrong impression she must get the maximum price no matter what.
Im sure you dont want a family feud !
To remove or change the ex is only done on serious mismanagement by the courts. So work with her if at all possible.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 14th January 12:30
surveyor_101 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Zoopla's guesstimates aren't worth the paper you might want to print them out on. They are almost a random number.
I have also found them a very rough guide, they chart sold prices.In the last few weeks I have seen them value one property sold for £425k at £263k and one sold for £195 valued by them at £235k. Both in good saleable condition with only wear and tear you would expect, neither in sad state or 'just refurbed bling'
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