Builder dispute
Discussion
I have a friend who is a builder, he is a friend but I wouldn’t get him to do any work on my property. He was approached in 2012 by a potential customer wanting some building work done, at the customers’ request it had to be a cash price. My friend was between Ltd companies at the time (closed one and starting another) so was technically a sole trader. He did the work for 3K cash, customer was happy and that was that.
Fast forward a year and the customer said he was unhappy and wanted the work redoing. My mate told him to jog on, no contract no warranty as it was a cash price. The customer instructed another company to do the work and are now chasing him for 12K to cover the costs. He is stressing quite a bit so I said I would ask around. He has a meeting with Citizens advice but I have said he should get proper legal advice.
He is a bit of a cowboy so I know he would have had a decent mark up on the works at 3K but to be chased for 12K seems mental. I have said offer the 3K back (he can just about cover it) as a full and final settlement. He thinks no contract, no proof and no need to refund. This is in Scotland if it has any bearing.
Fast forward a year and the customer said he was unhappy and wanted the work redoing. My mate told him to jog on, no contract no warranty as it was a cash price. The customer instructed another company to do the work and are now chasing him for 12K to cover the costs. He is stressing quite a bit so I said I would ask around. He has a meeting with Citizens advice but I have said he should get proper legal advice.
He is a bit of a cowboy so I know he would have had a decent mark up on the works at 3K but to be chased for 12K seems mental. I have said offer the 3K back (he can just about cover it) as a full and final settlement. He thinks no contract, no proof and no need to refund. This is in Scotland if it has any bearing.
I suspect your friend is up a certain creek in a barbed wire canoe.
Dealing with the customer in the first place would have been his correct option.
Quite possible the customer/other firm will dob him into the Inland Revenue as well who will want to know about undeclared income.
Could get very messy.
Dealing with the customer in the first place would have been his correct option.
Quite possible the customer/other firm will dob him into the Inland Revenue as well who will want to know about undeclared income.
Could get very messy.
How would your friend prove he didn't?
Unless this is on some rocky outcrop in the middle of nowhere with no-one else involved then there are likely to be witnesses who saw the work done & can identify him.
Plus in this day & age unless you are on the rocky outcrop etc the world & his wife are on one or more cameras and appear obsessed with taking photos on mobile phones etc so I expect photographic evidence won't be too difficult to find.
I do get asked 'How much if I pay cash & I don't want a receipt' in my own business. I simply don't do it.
Unless this is on some rocky outcrop in the middle of nowhere with no-one else involved then there are likely to be witnesses who saw the work done & can identify him.
Plus in this day & age unless you are on the rocky outcrop etc the world & his wife are on one or more cameras and appear obsessed with taking photos on mobile phones etc so I expect photographic evidence won't be too difficult to find.
I do get asked 'How much if I pay cash & I don't want a receipt' in my own business. I simply don't do it.
I know, he has a big van covered in signage so people would have seen him there.
paintman said:
How would your friend prove he didn't?
Unless this is on some rocky outcrop in the middle of nowhere with no-one else involved then there are likely to be witnesses who saw the work done & can identify him.
Plus in this day & age unless you are on the rocky outcrop etc the world & his wife are on one or more cameras and appear obsessed with taking photos on mobile phones etc so I expect photographic evidence won't be too difficult to find.
I do get asked 'How much if I pay cash & I don't want a receipt' in my own business. I simply don't do it.
Unless this is on some rocky outcrop in the middle of nowhere with no-one else involved then there are likely to be witnesses who saw the work done & can identify him.
Plus in this day & age unless you are on the rocky outcrop etc the world & his wife are on one or more cameras and appear obsessed with taking photos on mobile phones etc so I expect photographic evidence won't be too difficult to find.
I do get asked 'How much if I pay cash & I don't want a receipt' in my own business. I simply don't do it.
How does one get 12K costs from a 3K job? What did the work actually entail?
Also what happened to bring the issue out? Who knows what the customer did in the meantime to the property. There is obviously an issue with undeclared tax but that's a minor issue compared with the £12,000! Although does depend how many other cash jobs he did at the time.
As others have said you do wonder how the customer got £3k in cash, however threatening customer could be blackmail. Just report him!
Also what happened to bring the issue out? Who knows what the customer did in the meantime to the property. There is obviously an issue with undeclared tax but that's a minor issue compared with the £12,000! Although does depend how many other cash jobs he did at the time.
As others have said you do wonder how the customer got £3k in cash, however threatening customer could be blackmail. Just report him!
Just because the customer paid in cash, he (the customer) has no way to know that your friend did not in fact declare the income to Revenue and Customs. I accept that he probably didn't, but the customer has no way to be sure.
What on earth was the job for £3k that required £12k of remedial work?
What on earth was the job for £3k that required £12k of remedial work?
essayer said:
The customer surely has no proof that your mate didn't pay tax.. Just because it was cash doesn't mean it wasn't declared does it?
This, I've had customers ask for cash price, I just quote the same and still declare, for the small jobs I do I can't be bothered with having HMRC going though everything H..... said:
BeerBoy said:
at the customers’ request it had to be a cash price.
Does this implicate the customer is some way?I sounds like avoiding tax was the aim for the cash price, but its the builder thats commiting the offence.
Amused2death said:
Is there a paperwork trail regarding getting the original builder to rectify the "faults" that the customer is complaining about?
Surely if no paperwork then the customer is on a bit of a sticky wicket as he can't prove he gave the original builder the chance to fix?
ThisSurely if no paperwork then the customer is on a bit of a sticky wicket as he can't prove he gave the original builder the chance to fix?
Why are you even getting involved with this? I'm assuming you have some professional role, if he is asking for advise from you? Why tar yourself with the same brush as someone who doesn't pay there tax, does poor quality work and then refuses to fix his shoddy work.
This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that will eventually happen if you conduct your business this way. The sooner these type of tradesmen are shut down the better it is for everyone, other tradesmen and clients alike.
This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that will eventually happen if you conduct your business this way. The sooner these type of tradesmen are shut down the better it is for everyone, other tradesmen and clients alike.
xstian said:
Why are you even getting involved with this? I'm assuming you have some professional role, if he is asking for advise from you? Why tar yourself with the same brush as someone who doesn't pay there tax, does poor quality work and then refuses to fix his shoddy work.
This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that will eventually happen if you conduct your business this way. The sooner these type of tradesmen are shut down the better it is for everyone, other tradesmen and clients alike.
His wife works for me. I agree he hasn't conducted himself as well as he should have and I have no idea about his tax status, all I know is his wife's tax is spot on with regards to her work for me.This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that will eventually happen if you conduct your business this way. The sooner these type of tradesmen are shut down the better it is for everyone, other tradesmen and clients alike.
I feel sorry for him that he could get shafted but as others have said live by the sword etc
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