Fined by DVLA - It's a mess.
Discussion
Hey folks.
This morning I received a letter from a debt recovery agency telling me that I owe £640 to somebody. After a phone call to the agency it turns out that I'm being fined because my old car hasn't been taxed, had MOT or insurance.
I sent off the V5 to the DVLA when we sold it and thought that was all done. I didn't receive anything back and didn't know that I should have expected a letter from them. The problem is I also moved home around that time so it appears all of the letters regarding this issue have gone to my old address, so I was unaware any of this has been going on (since november 2015 apparently)
I've been told I've got until the 3rd of February to pay the fine or the bailiffs turn up.
I'm not sure what I can do here really. I've tried to call the DVLA this morning but it appears anything to do with debt is automated and needs to be dealt with in writing. As I have none of the previous correspondence that makes it tough, as I don't have any references.
I don't have the name or address of who I sold the car to anymore, nor do I have any paperwork from that vehicle available to me.
I guess I'm going to end up having to pay this fine, but any advice about how to go about either fighting it, and telling the DVLA I no longer own this vehicle would be appreciated.
Thank you for reading.
This morning I received a letter from a debt recovery agency telling me that I owe £640 to somebody. After a phone call to the agency it turns out that I'm being fined because my old car hasn't been taxed, had MOT or insurance.
I sent off the V5 to the DVLA when we sold it and thought that was all done. I didn't receive anything back and didn't know that I should have expected a letter from them. The problem is I also moved home around that time so it appears all of the letters regarding this issue have gone to my old address, so I was unaware any of this has been going on (since november 2015 apparently)
I've been told I've got until the 3rd of February to pay the fine or the bailiffs turn up.
I'm not sure what I can do here really. I've tried to call the DVLA this morning but it appears anything to do with debt is automated and needs to be dealt with in writing. As I have none of the previous correspondence that makes it tough, as I don't have any references.
I don't have the name or address of who I sold the car to anymore, nor do I have any paperwork from that vehicle available to me.
I guess I'm going to end up having to pay this fine, but any advice about how to go about either fighting it, and telling the DVLA I no longer own this vehicle would be appreciated.
Thank you for reading.
And this is why I always send things to the DVLA by recorded delivery.
However.
However.
Interpretation Act 1978 said:
7 References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
Essentially if they can't prove otherwise it should be assumed to have been delivered. Good luck with arguing with them though. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
Even sending it by register post is no guarantee!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134...
Roo said:
So you didn't do a post redirect?
How have they now got your address?
No, because I informed everyone (apart from the DVLA obviously) that we had moved. It was a rental which we still had 3 weeks on when I moved into the new house, so I could go back and pick up any last bits of post.How have they now got your address?
I'm assuming they've got it from the new car that I own, which is registered to my new address.
RCBRG said:
davepoth said:
Essentially if they can't prove otherwise it should be assumed to have been delivered. Good luck with arguing with them though.
the interpretation act didnt help me when i went to court with the DVLA to fight a very similar case
davepoth said:
Interpretation Act 1978 said:
7 References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
Essentially if they can't prove otherwise it should be assumed to have been delivered. Good luck with arguing with them though.
Whilst in the past a number of people may have been successful in getting similar cases dropped after citing s.7 IA 1978, DVLA more recently seems to have been relying on the fact that the Registration and Licensing regulations require notification of a change of keeper to be 'delivered' to them, not served, not posted, not sent.
It appears that they are also relying on case law from the 1800s which provides that delivery is effected 'as soon as an article is put into the hands of a party'.
Been shafted by the DVLA as well, though mine was when I bought a car that needed a change of taxation class - disabled to plg - so had to go to one of the offices.
Had all the paperwork, payment etc and asked if I could hand over the change of ownership paperwork for the old car while I was there.
The clerk agreed and I though job jobbed.
But No, a few weeks later I was fined for not changing ownership details.
I argued the case and has some woman explaining its my responsibility to check the paperwork.
It dragged on for weeks and weeks and in the end paid around £70 to be done (Half the amount they were after but I think they knew I was telling the truth and it was their incompetence)
I though it had all changed now, when youve sold the car and subsequently cancel your road tax online, it automatically pings up new keeper details and will produce a V5 for the new owner - so no paperwork to send back?
Had all the paperwork, payment etc and asked if I could hand over the change of ownership paperwork for the old car while I was there.
The clerk agreed and I though job jobbed.
But No, a few weeks later I was fined for not changing ownership details.
I argued the case and has some woman explaining its my responsibility to check the paperwork.
It dragged on for weeks and weeks and in the end paid around £70 to be done (Half the amount they were after but I think they knew I was telling the truth and it was their incompetence)
I though it had all changed now, when youve sold the car and subsequently cancel your road tax online, it automatically pings up new keeper details and will produce a V5 for the new owner - so no paperwork to send back?
With these feet said:
Had all the paperwork, payment etc and asked if I could hand over the change of ownership paperwork for the old car while I was there.
The clerk agreed and I though job jobbed.
...a few weeks later I was fined for not changing ownership details.
I'm struggling to see how handing the relevant documents to a DVLA agent at a DVLA office could be construed as anything other than 'delivered'.The clerk agreed and I though job jobbed.
...a few weeks later I was fined for not changing ownership details.
I assume you had no proof or receipt that the paperwork was accepted by DVLA ?
Dejay1788 said:
I'm not sure what I can do here really.
Pay the penalty.This comes all the time on here and I can't believe that people are so slap-dash that they don't look out for the acknowledgement (although I've had car salesmen insist it doesn't matter when p/xing cars) and don't keep the name and address of the new owner.
You can do the change of ownership online now, so hopefully this should be less of an issue in future.
When did you sell the car?
You say it's been going on since November 2015? You also said you had access to the house for 3 weeks? Would this then take it until December? Or has it been going on for a lot longer?
You sell car, DVLA decide it's not taxed, MOT'd etc, fine you then appoint bailiffs all in the space of 2 months? Say 1.5 months allowing for Christmas
Something doesn't sound right
You say it's been going on since November 2015? You also said you had access to the house for 3 weeks? Would this then take it until December? Or has it been going on for a lot longer?
You sell car, DVLA decide it's not taxed, MOT'd etc, fine you then appoint bailiffs all in the space of 2 months? Say 1.5 months allowing for Christmas
Something doesn't sound right
chazwind said:
"Do not question. You are wrong. Just pay."
He is wrong.It tells you on the V5C to look out for the acknowledgement and chase it up if not received within 4 weeks. OP didn't do this.
He also moved and didn't forward his mail - didn't need to as he told "everyone"....hmmm, OK. Oh, apart from DVLA. So he could be fined £1000 for not changing his driving licence.
Dejay1788 said:
No, because I informed everyone (apart from the DVLA obviously) that we had moved. It was a rental which we still had 3 weeks on when I moved into the new house, so I could go back and pick up any last bits of post.
I'm assuming they've got it from the new car that I own, which is registered to my new address.
Sorry, but how did the DVLA get your new address? I'm assuming they've got it from the new car that I own, which is registered to my new address.
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