Is he insured?
Discussion
I own a car, not currently used. It's not insured which as of this morning I have realised it should be (and will be ASAP).
What's the legality if he wants to use it for work? Are his third party insurance and my insurance separate issues, or do I need to insure the car for him to be able to drive it third party?
I'm new to this driving lark hence the confusion.
What's the legality if he wants to use it for work? Are his third party insurance and my insurance separate issues, or do I need to insure the car for him to be able to drive it third party?
I'm new to this driving lark hence the confusion.
If your car is not currently used it will depend on whether it needs to be insured or not.
If it is kept on private land and is declared SORN then no insurance is required (although it might still be wise to insure against fire and theft etc.)
However, if is kept on public land, whether this be parked in a public car park, roadside or wherever it will need to be taxed and insured under Continuous Insurance Enforcement (CIE) legislation.
For another individual to drive the car under Driving Other Cars cover (DOC or Third Party) it will depend on what their policy says.
Some Policies allow DOC without the other car requiring insurance in its own right. Other Policies stipulate that cover must also be in place on the other car.
If the former then yes the other driver can drive your car under DOC / Third Party
BUT
you will still be liable for the offence of allowing a not taxed car that is not insured (CIE) to be used.
This sis not the same as driving without insurance but will still attract fines via DVLA.
If it is kept on private land and is declared SORN then no insurance is required (although it might still be wise to insure against fire and theft etc.)
However, if is kept on public land, whether this be parked in a public car park, roadside or wherever it will need to be taxed and insured under Continuous Insurance Enforcement (CIE) legislation.
For another individual to drive the car under Driving Other Cars cover (DOC or Third Party) it will depend on what their policy says.
Some Policies allow DOC without the other car requiring insurance in its own right. Other Policies stipulate that cover must also be in place on the other car.
If the former then yes the other driver can drive your car under DOC / Third Party
BUT
you will still be liable for the offence of allowing a not taxed car that is not insured (CIE) to be used.
This sis not the same as driving without insurance but will still attract fines via DVLA.
HantsRat said:
chazwind said:
Definitely this.
No not really. Some insurance companies don't require the vehicle to have a separate policy. Ask him to check his insurance policy wording. over_the_hill said:
If it is kept on private land and is declared SORN then no insurance is required (although it might still be wise to insure against fire and theft etc.)
And of course, if it's SORN, it won't be taxed*.OP - save yourself a potentially load of hurt and either insure the vehicle (and double check the other party's insurance documents for confirmation of DOC cover - including commuting / business, as required - before letting him take it), or just say no.
* - I'm sure you knew this, just clarifying for the benefit of the OP.
Edited by SS2. on Tuesday 26th January 12:48
Thanks to all for the replies.
I have today been made aware of Continuous Insurance Enforcement, so the car has now been insured. My father (the person I forgot to mention) was also unaware, hence the mix-up. Really lucky I wasn't fined as it's been a few weeks, though the car hasn't moved.
It seems there's little provision for a learner to own and drive their own car.
I have today been made aware of Continuous Insurance Enforcement, so the car has now been insured. My father (the person I forgot to mention) was also unaware, hence the mix-up. Really lucky I wasn't fined as it's been a few weeks, though the car hasn't moved.
It seems there's little provision for a learner to own and drive their own car.
SS2. said:
No different to anyone who wants to run their own vehicle - MOT it, tax it, insure it, drive it in accordance with the conditions of their licence.
When you put it like that it's very easy but the fact is, it doesn't seem that easy to someone new to it. Add to this my father being utterly convinced that I did not need to insure it. I could walk through the whole debacle but it would be embarrassing. You can't seem to have a learner policy on a car you own yourself, so it's either insure it on a provisional licence for a year or sell it to family and get them to insure it so you can have a learner policy.Should have done my own due diligence, a lesson learned indeed.
HantsRat said:
chazwind said:
Definitely this.
No not really. Some insurance companies don't require the vehicle to have a separate policy. Ask him to check his insurance policy wording. 
The party of the first party, may hold such party absolute if, every third party - the party of the second party brings his own bottle of drink and does not steal anyone else, or set fire to anything.
You have to read these things very carefully!!
dannydrama said:
When you put it like that it's very easy but the fact is, it doesn't seem that easy to someone new to it. Add to this my father being utterly convinced that I did not need to insure it. I could walk through the whole debacle but it would be embarrassing. You can't seem to have a learner policy on a car you own yourself, so it's either insure it on a provisional licence for a year or sell it to family and get them to insure it so you can have a learner policy.
Should have done my own due diligence, a lesson learned indeed.
You clearly want to do the right thing, and I'm glad that you've learnt this lesson without any serious ramifications.Should have done my own due diligence, a lesson learned indeed.
I don't think the UK is particularly good at supporting new drivers (e.g. compared to Germany or Australia) - hopefully that will change...
dannydrama said:
You can't seem to have a learner policy on a car you own yourself, so it's either insure it on a provisional licence for a year or sell it to family and get them to insure it so you can have a learner policy.
You mean something like this ?Either way, is there an issue with insuring your own car for you to drive on your provisional licence ?
You may find that adding parents as named drivers may even bring the premium down slightly, although you'll likely see a massive hike in price once you've passed your test.
dannydrama said:
It seems there's little provision for a learner to own and drive their own car.
I would say that there are plenty of options available for learners. Just bought a car for the 17 year old, and although we paid for it as the parents, he's the registered keeper and the policy holder on the insurance. Of course, the other limitations of only having a provisional licence apply so he can't drive it on his own etc. Both of us as parents are named drivers on the policy so can drive it whenever we like.
The advantage of being a named driver on the policy is that when Mrs QQ or I are driving, it's covered fully comp. Besides, a lot of DOC cover conditions stipulate that the DOC is not available to use when the other car is your spouse's, some also exclude another relative living at the same address. Not only that, but having 2 drivers with more than 20 years of clean driving each as named drivers on the policy brings down the cost of the insurance for the 17 year old with the provisional licence. With that set up (learner driver as RK, main driver and policy holder, both parents named drivers on the policy), the 4k Peugeot 107 has cost less than £400 to insure for 12 months. The moment he passes his test, the cost will jump to £1500 but that's also a lot less than if we weren't named drivers.
dannydrama said:
When you put it like that it's very easy but the fact is, it doesn't seem that easy to someone new to it. Add to this my father being utterly convinced that I did not need to insure it. I could walk through the whole debacle but it would be embarrassing. You can't seem to have a learner policy on a car you own yourself, so it's either insure it on a provisional licence for a year or sell it to family and get them to insure it so you can have a learner policy.
Should have done my own due diligence, a lesson learned indeed.
I'm glad you've taught your dad a few things about car insurance, well done! Should have done my own due diligence, a lesson learned indeed.
You can definitely have a learner policy on a car you own yourself, that might be another thing to teach dad
just go to any insurance comparison site and you'll be able to get some quotes and see for yourself 
I've seen that you can insure on a provisional, I even got some (quite cheap) quotes. It's the way I suspected it would be easiest to stay legal. Again, dad decided that I didn't need to insure it and I'd be losing money when I cancelled it. Instead, he insured it for a month himself whilst I got the learner policy. Which I have since learned is not legal as I am the registered owner.
He has fallen out with me again because he is still positive his insurance allows him to drive it, even after telling him about CIE. This is the same man who let an under 25 drive my car third party, which also is not allowed.
He has fallen out with me again because he is still positive his insurance allows him to drive it, even after telling him about CIE. This is the same man who let an under 25 drive my car third party, which also is not allowed.
dannydrama said:
He has fallen out with me again because he is still positive his insurance allows him to drive it, even after telling him about CIE.
It's a moot point since the vehicle has now been insured by your dad, however..His policy may state that he was insured to drive it under his DOC extension, but until such time as the car was insured directly, then it needed to have been declared SORN. And if it was SORN, it wouldn't have been taxed.
This means that in addition to you having an untaxed vehicle being used or kept on a public road, he would have been equally guilty of the same if he'd driven (or parked) the vehicle on a public road. That could have meant mean chunky fines for both you and your dad.
Well done for standing your ground, even if it did strain the relationship a little..
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