Solicitor in liquidation?
Discussion
I have just learned from a third party (former employee after business)that our family solicitors ceased trading at the end of 2015 and are now in liquidation.They were a large organisation,recently moved to modern premises with numerous employees.
What surprises me is that we have not had any official correspondence from anyone regarding this.The firm hold the wills of my wife and I and the deeds of the house we live.
Surely we should have been notified by the liquidator,law society,who ever? What happens in this situation?
What surprises me is that we have not had any official correspondence from anyone regarding this.The firm hold the wills of my wife and I and the deeds of the house we live.
Surely we should have been notified by the liquidator,law society,who ever? What happens in this situation?
OP, if a liquidator has been appointed the SRA ought to know about it. Ask them.
http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/code-of-conduct/g...
http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/code-of-conduct/g...
Many thanks for swift replies guys.That link Red Devil,has all the information I need.
Why we haven't been contacted god knows,we are probably last in the queue though? I`ve been to their web site and it just says "we are closed" it also says all clients wills,deeds etc have been transferred to this law firm in another town miles away.I would have thought they should have contacted us.
As well as being surprising it's also quite sad.Our original solicitors who were established in our town 270 years ago!! were taken over by this new flash-brash outfit with offices in four other towns.Now after ten years in business they have all gone down the plug hole. Thank goodness we are not in the middle of a business deal,house move,divorce or whatever.This sort of situation could put other people out of business.
Any way the solicitor that contacted us used to work for the original old firm so must have found out through the grapevine?.He is sending us an authority for us to sign so that the wills and deeds can be transferred to him.
We have copies of everything and nothing else outstanding so it looks as if there is nothing to worry about.
Mind you we are off on holiday tomorrow and if the plane falls out of the sky our wills will be needed.
Why we haven't been contacted god knows,we are probably last in the queue though? I`ve been to their web site and it just says "we are closed" it also says all clients wills,deeds etc have been transferred to this law firm in another town miles away.I would have thought they should have contacted us.
As well as being surprising it's also quite sad.Our original solicitors who were established in our town 270 years ago!! were taken over by this new flash-brash outfit with offices in four other towns.Now after ten years in business they have all gone down the plug hole. Thank goodness we are not in the middle of a business deal,house move,divorce or whatever.This sort of situation could put other people out of business.
Any way the solicitor that contacted us used to work for the original old firm so must have found out through the grapevine?.He is sending us an authority for us to sign so that the wills and deeds can be transferred to him.
We have copies of everything and nothing else outstanding so it looks as if there is nothing to worry about.
Mind you we are off on holiday tomorrow and if the plane falls out of the sky our wills will be needed.
Cack-handed regulation and a government seemingly desperate to reduce access to justice = firms closing down.
A high street firm isn't in the easiest position these days, unless it has made significant efforts to become lean. Criminal work pays peanuts and has awful cashflow, conveyancing and wills are commodity products with no margin, services by factory type operations. PI is low margin in the majority; if you want to make money you either have to do large volumes of RTA/trip and slip at maximum efficiency or high value, at which point you're back to awful cashflow. You can no longer easily buy PI cases to suit, as LASPO means it's now more difficult (not impossible), though unless you can afford £70 a click on Google, you can't compete against the big boys. Family work no longer means Legal Aid, there are less people able or willing to fund their own path. Employment suffers from claimants needing deep pockets to fund the hugely increased fees to even get a claim off the ground.
As an invester, I wouldn't go near a law firm (outside of the top very few, and even then, the equity partners rape the company of profits each and every year) with a barge pole.
A high street firm isn't in the easiest position these days, unless it has made significant efforts to become lean. Criminal work pays peanuts and has awful cashflow, conveyancing and wills are commodity products with no margin, services by factory type operations. PI is low margin in the majority; if you want to make money you either have to do large volumes of RTA/trip and slip at maximum efficiency or high value, at which point you're back to awful cashflow. You can no longer easily buy PI cases to suit, as LASPO means it's now more difficult (not impossible), though unless you can afford £70 a click on Google, you can't compete against the big boys. Family work no longer means Legal Aid, there are less people able or willing to fund their own path. Employment suffers from claimants needing deep pockets to fund the hugely increased fees to even get a claim off the ground.
As an invester, I wouldn't go near a law firm (outside of the top very few, and even then, the equity partners rape the company of profits each and every year) with a barge pole.
Audidodat said:
Cack-handed regulation and a government seemingly desperate to reduce access to justice = firms closing down.
A high street firm isn't in the easiest position these days, unless it has made significant efforts to become lean. Criminal work pays peanuts and has awful cashflow, conveyancing and wills are commodity products with no margin, services by factory type operations. PI is low margin in the majority; if you want to make money you either have to do large volumes of RTA/trip and slip at maximum efficiency or high value, at which point you're back to awful cashflow. You can no longer easily buy PI cases to suit, as LASPO means it's now more difficult (not impossible), though unless you can afford £70 a click on Google, you can't compete against the big boys. Family work no longer means Legal Aid, there are less people able or willing to fund their own path. Employment suffers from claimants needing deep pockets to fund the hugely increased fees to even get a claim off the ground.
As an invester, I wouldn't go near a law firm (outside of the top very few, and even then, the equity partners rape the company of profits each and every year) with a barge pole.
I can't really agree with some of this though I take your point. A high street firm isn't in the easiest position these days, unless it has made significant efforts to become lean. Criminal work pays peanuts and has awful cashflow, conveyancing and wills are commodity products with no margin, services by factory type operations. PI is low margin in the majority; if you want to make money you either have to do large volumes of RTA/trip and slip at maximum efficiency or high value, at which point you're back to awful cashflow. You can no longer easily buy PI cases to suit, as LASPO means it's now more difficult (not impossible), though unless you can afford £70 a click on Google, you can't compete against the big boys. Family work no longer means Legal Aid, there are less people able or willing to fund their own path. Employment suffers from claimants needing deep pockets to fund the hugely increased fees to even get a claim off the ground.
As an invester, I wouldn't go near a law firm (outside of the top very few, and even then, the equity partners rape the company of profits each and every year) with a barge pole.
I pay an awful lot of money per hour to these types of business (far more per hour than I can get for the overheads I have). At the end of the day, reduce your overheads and stay in business or die. That's exactly what any other business has to do. I get charged anything up to £125 per hour for advice, yet their overheads are minimal compared to mine. Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 6th March 14:10
Nice sentiment, however law is one of those areas so heavily regulated, a business model can be hugely successful one year and literally dead in the water the next. Take a look at LASPO, changes to legal aid implimented by the MOJ and the proposed changes to the small claims limit as examples. Pressure is growing to impose fixed fees on all but the most high value of civil claims.
Also, criticisms of lawyers based on overheads is a little misconceived. You would wince at the cost of mandatory PII paid by many firms, including the run-off cover they pay if they have the cheek to close down in an orderly fashion. Lawyers don't actually earn the sums you might think (trainees are circa/under £20k and not that much more as junior associates in everyday work (excluding corporate/specialist in the City)).
You might, of course, despite that, continue to believe lawyers are unnecessarily expensive. You could pay less per hour, equalling lower salaries, but that would mean the people who are bright, who really expect to earn, are doing other things instead of law. The people doing the law might be 25% cheaper, but they're going to be less good. Considering most people want a 'good' lawyer when they need one, rather than a 'cheap' one, I'd suggest lower cost would end up being counter productive.
Also, criticisms of lawyers based on overheads is a little misconceived. You would wince at the cost of mandatory PII paid by many firms, including the run-off cover they pay if they have the cheek to close down in an orderly fashion. Lawyers don't actually earn the sums you might think (trainees are circa/under £20k and not that much more as junior associates in everyday work (excluding corporate/specialist in the City)).
You might, of course, despite that, continue to believe lawyers are unnecessarily expensive. You could pay less per hour, equalling lower salaries, but that would mean the people who are bright, who really expect to earn, are doing other things instead of law. The people doing the law might be 25% cheaper, but they're going to be less good. Considering most people want a 'good' lawyer when they need one, rather than a 'cheap' one, I'd suggest lower cost would end up being counter productive.
Old Merc said:
Any way the solicitor that contacted us used to work for the original old firm so must have found out through the grapevine?.He is sending us an authority for us to sign so that the wills and deeds can be transferred to him.
How helpful of him;)On general issues, for varying reasons legal services are being decimated. We're it most other industries the public would know and probably care. Unfotunately they will likely find out when it's too late.
POORCARDEALER said:
Getting an insurance firm to offer PII these days to a small solicitors practice is difficult enough, then the actual premium is often ridiculous...I know of several firms who are struggling badly and will probably cose theor doors in the next 12 months
We have about as good a claim record as you can get - the odd one here and there over 10 years or so that proves we are not lying but nothing earth shattering and nothing property related. Our PII was still about 25% higher this year than last and things are getting tougher and harder. There are a few 'old boys' in the area that are still open only because they can't afford the run off insurance and no one will buy their practice as these days you might as well buy a time bomb.You know that there is a bit of a disconnect when people think that you are too expensive when you ask for a fee that is less than .25% of the sale price that they have achieved for the Property (with all the liability and so on that goes with that) yet think that the 1.5%+vat that they are paying an agent is good value for money...
Rude-boy said:
You know that there is a bit of a disconnect when people think that you are too expensive when you ask for a fee that is less than .25% of the sale price that they have achieved for the Property (with all the liability and so on that goes with that) yet think that the 1.5%+vat that they are paying an agent is good value for money...
^^^This. Conveyancing can be anything but straight forward, especially when the property is a relatively ordinary house. For most people, their home is their biggest asset. They take on a huge mortgage liability to acquire it. It may well form the basis of their children's future or their own retirement. A dispute about a boundary or an an easement can be ruinous in itself and can diminish the value of a property enormously. And yet people want to pay £150 for their conveyancing; and regard it is an unnecessary nuisance and a rook of the legal profession.
I despair of clients sometimes, I always point out to them that a good solicitor may cost £100-200 more than the cheapest Internet fella, but there is rarely much difference when the deal concludes anyway due to the add ones that seem to crop up.
A good solicitor is worth his weight in gold, and when you measure that a solicitor may charge a fee of £450-650 to buy a standard house, a mortgage broker on a typical average house might get roughly similar, yet the estate agents would be on for 1-1.5%, maybe £2500-3000 for the same house, you always wonder why clients think the ones ripping them off are the mortgage brokers and the solicitors? Very often around here, agents don't even show people around the houses, they make the vendor do it! Good money for doing next to nothing it would seem, I even had to explain to one recently what a leasehold flat meant, he actually didn't know! What a tool
A good solicitor is worth his weight in gold, and when you measure that a solicitor may charge a fee of £450-650 to buy a standard house, a mortgage broker on a typical average house might get roughly similar, yet the estate agents would be on for 1-1.5%, maybe £2500-3000 for the same house, you always wonder why clients think the ones ripping them off are the mortgage brokers and the solicitors? Very often around here, agents don't even show people around the houses, they make the vendor do it! Good money for doing next to nothing it would seem, I even had to explain to one recently what a leasehold flat meant, he actually didn't know! What a tool
Mortgage procuration fees (what the broker gets) is usually a percentage, normally 0.18-0.45% of the loan, depending on the lender/type of loan/status of the client. It's relatively small, but the client doesn't pay anything of that, it's priced within every mortgage deal, and if the broker doesn't take it, goes to the lenders marketing departments budget. Although you earn more the larger the mortgage in general, this means that while you make almost nothing compared to the provision of service cost on a small mortgage, the larger ones subsidise this and mean you can offer a great service (or a crap one if you like) across the board without loading a smaller loan with added fees to cover costs, for example, a loan of up to £100,000 barely earns enough individually to make it worthwhile unless you charge a fee on top, or have the extra generated by some bigger loans to offset it
Solicitors charge pretty standardised fees across the purchase range, the actual solicitors bit doesn't change much at all, but the cost of the disbursement so like registry, searches etc do cost more based on the purchase value, and of course stamp duty increases severely after £250000
Solicitors charge pretty standardised fees across the purchase range, the actual solicitors bit doesn't change much at all, but the cost of the disbursement so like registry, searches etc do cost more based on the purchase value, and of course stamp duty increases severely after £250000
daytona355 said:
Solicitors charge pretty standardised fees across the purchase range, the actual solicitors bit doesn't change much at all, but the cost of the disbursement so like registry, searches etc do cost more based on the purchase value, and of course stamp duty increases severely after £250000
A lot of people also forget that the more valuable the house the bigger the fall out if it all goes wrong - (as a rule) it's more expensive to insure a £200k car than it is to insure a £100k car, there's a reason for that... Yet when you are talking about property people often don't see why the price should be different for a £2m property over a £200k one, even though the ultimate liability is that much greater.It is also very wrong to suggest that the job is the same, regardless of the property. The legal work for buying a £200k property can be vastly different if it is leasehold rather than freehold, let alone if we talk about the difference between an estate property that is 10 years old against an 1880's cottage in the sticks. There there are the clients themselves who can make a massive difference. If they are on the ball, have the information that they need and listen it can make a massive difference over the clients who are disorganised, require constant reminding, and yet still seem to be able to send you 3-4 e-mails a week asking for an update, even though two days ago you told them that it would be about a week before you would know any more.
One thing that I have found has almost always held true in 14 years at the coal face is that the people who are the most price sensitive are usually the worst clients through the course of a matter and the most demanding.
Rude-boy said:
daytona355 said:
One thing that I have found has almost always held true in 14 years at the coal face is that the people who are the most price sensitive are usually the worst clients through the course of a matter and the most demanding.
Exactly the same in my trade"!Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff