A DVLA Dilemma!
Discussion
Without wanting to sound like an episode on Radio 4's the Moral Maze, my father in law seems to have ended up in a rather first world problem that I'd like to pick your collective brains on if I may...
My in laws are lucky enough to enjoy life split between houses in the South of France and the UK, having nice wheels in each location to enjoy when they are there.
These cars are generally swapped around a couple of times a year, so it was assumed that exporting the car wouldn't apply - surely you'd have to export both ways?
Anyway, the car that is registered to the French address has actually spent rather a lot of time in the
UK over the past couple of years despite being on French plates.
It is now back in France, but my father in law has just received a letter from the DVLA asking for the reg number of the car mot cert number and VIN details.
The dilemma is that because the car has been in the UK he has kept the MOT going but with the UK plate, not the french number. However the UK number is on retention, so obviously DVLA have noticed the anomaly. (No idea how he's done that!)
So the question is, would it be better to admit that the car was on French plates and potentially be liable for back dated RFL or say that it's on the cherished plate that it's MOT'd on that could be cross referenced to the retention document?
Any help gratefully received - Even if it's negative, I think he know's he's been a silly boy!
Fr
My in laws are lucky enough to enjoy life split between houses in the South of France and the UK, having nice wheels in each location to enjoy when they are there.
These cars are generally swapped around a couple of times a year, so it was assumed that exporting the car wouldn't apply - surely you'd have to export both ways?
Anyway, the car that is registered to the French address has actually spent rather a lot of time in the
UK over the past couple of years despite being on French plates.
It is now back in France, but my father in law has just received a letter from the DVLA asking for the reg number of the car mot cert number and VIN details.
The dilemma is that because the car has been in the UK he has kept the MOT going but with the UK plate, not the french number. However the UK number is on retention, so obviously DVLA have noticed the anomaly. (No idea how he's done that!)
So the question is, would it be better to admit that the car was on French plates and potentially be liable for back dated RFL or say that it's on the cherished plate that it's MOT'd on that could be cross referenced to the retention document?
Any help gratefully received - Even if it's negative, I think he know's he's been a silly boy!
Fr
A French registered car is subject to a MOT every two years and a Britsh MOT has no standing in France,
So he has another problem, the car is now not legal in France unless he's re-testedit in the meantime.
When he put the plates on he as also invalidated the insurance.
I think he has been very silly with this by trying to do the right thing.
Good luck
So he has another problem, the car is now not legal in France unless he's re-testedit in the meantime.
When he put the plates on he as also invalidated the insurance.
I think he has been very silly with this by trying to do the right thing.
Good luck
Couple of odd things:
If it's also got French plates it must have a Carte Grise. To get that you must use either the V5 or a certificate of permanent export. The UK plates immediately become void. I assume it wasn't a certificate of permanent export or the DVLA would be aware from the beginning.
If it was registered in France using the V5 it is also likely that the prefecture have informed the DVLA that the V5 was surrendered to them. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
One set of plates will be illegal.
If it's also got French plates it must have a Carte Grise. To get that you must use either the V5 or a certificate of permanent export. The UK plates immediately become void. I assume it wasn't a certificate of permanent export or the DVLA would be aware from the beginning.
If it was registered in France using the V5 it is also likely that the prefecture have informed the DVLA that the V5 was surrendered to them. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
One set of plates will be illegal.
Bizarrely the car in France is on UK plates and is tested / insured over there.
And that's not legal.
My old man did the same, never caught, but it's not legal and if an accident happens, that's when it hurts.
In France you are guilty until proven innocent in law!
think you old man has been taking an advantage of his situation and he is not alone, however i'm not having a go at him, just stating fact.
And that's not legal.
My old man did the same, never caught, but it's not legal and if an accident happens, that's when it hurts.
In France you are guilty until proven innocent in law!
think you old man has been taking an advantage of his situation and he is not alone, however i'm not having a go at him, just stating fact.
Totally agree
I think originally they were on their respective plates etc because they spent time at both homes each year and it didn't seem practical to export / import each time.
So, can the UK car in France not be insured and tested there on Brit plates and vice versa with the France car in UK?
Assuming they are swapped regularly?
I think originally they were on their respective plates etc because they spent time at both homes each year and it didn't seem practical to export / import each time.
So, can the UK car in France not be insured and tested there on Brit plates and vice versa with the France car in UK?
Assuming they are swapped regularly?
So, if I'm getting all this correctly
If both cars are to be used in both homes during say a 12 month period, they would need to be tested in both UK and France?
The current scenario is the car with French plates (that the DVLA are enquiring about) is in France and the UK car is back in the UK (tested in UK now)
But really the form from the DVLA should be completed with the French plates despite the car being in the UK for a period of time.
If both cars are to be used in both homes during say a 12 month period, they would need to be tested in both UK and France?
The current scenario is the car with French plates (that the DVLA are enquiring about) is in France and the UK car is back in the UK (tested in UK now)
But really the form from the DVLA should be completed with the French plates despite the car being in the UK for a period of time.
GB car = MOT insured in UK. can be kept in France 6 months max and then comes home to UK. Make sure UK insurance civers use in France
French car = CT and insured in France, kept in UK max 6 months and then needs to return to France.
I'm getting the feeling your old man has put the UK plates ( held on retention?) onto this car to take it for an MOT, why I don't know and I don't think you do either!
That's why the DVLA is getting in touch, as its using it s brain for once.
HTH
French car = CT and insured in France, kept in UK max 6 months and then needs to return to France.
I'm getting the feeling your old man has put the UK plates ( held on retention?) onto this car to take it for an MOT, why I don't know and I don't think you do either!
That's why the DVLA is getting in touch, as its using it s brain for once.
HTH
So one of the cars has two identities? That is the same chassis number is registered simultaneously in the UK and France? If the plates in the UK are on retention I'd expect the DVLA system to refuse to do the MOT, as plates on retention are not allocated to a chassis so can't bring up appropriate emmisions data etc.
It is possible to keep a car in France on UK plates as long as it continues to be tested in the UK, as I have a friend who does so with a Caterham. He can't export it as in spite of EU law requiring them to accept them, the French happily refuse to register cars that are legally registered in the UK if they weren't approved in France. Instead he has insurance through a French broker, for the car to be in France 12 months of the year save for an annual trip to Dover for an MOT. I believe the V5 is registered to a relative's house.
It is possible to keep a car in France on UK plates as long as it continues to be tested in the UK, as I have a friend who does so with a Caterham. He can't export it as in spite of EU law requiring them to accept them, the French happily refuse to register cars that are legally registered in the UK if they weren't approved in France. Instead he has insurance through a French broker, for the car to be in France 12 months of the year save for an annual trip to Dover for an MOT. I believe the V5 is registered to a relative's house.
anothernameitist said:
GB car = MOT insured in UK. can be kept in France 6 months max and then comes home to UK. Make sure UK insurance civers use in France
French car = CT and insured in France, kept in UK max 6 months and then needs to return to France.
I'm getting the feeling your old man has put the UK plates ( held on retention?) onto this car to take it for an MOT, why I don't know and I don't think you do either!
That's why the DVLA is getting in touch, as its using it s brain for once.
HTH
You are right, although I think he doesn't actually put the retained plates on the car...which suggests the test centre is being a bit naughty too! Bit of a pandora's box ive stumbled into!French car = CT and insured in France, kept in UK max 6 months and then needs to return to France.
I'm getting the feeling your old man has put the UK plates ( held on retention?) onto this car to take it for an MOT, why I don't know and I don't think you do either!
That's why the DVLA is getting in touch, as its using it s brain for once.
HTH
Something's not right; if the plates are on retention they are not associated with a car identity, unless forms are filled in they don't spontaneously associate themselves with a car again. Even if your FIL has physically put the plates on to get it MOTed the VOSA/DVSA computer terminal should just spit the number back and say 'computer says no' as it shouldn't be recognised.
Wolfsbait said:
You are right, although I think he doesn't actually put the retained plates on the car...which suggests the test centre is being a bit naughty too! Bit of a pandora's box ive stumbled into!
You can MOT a car displaying foreign/no plates without a problem. How do you think imports that need an MOT before registering get tested?
OP said:
The dilemma is that because the car has been in the UK he has kept the MOT going but with the UK plate, not the french number. However the UK number is on retention, so obviously DVLA have noticed the anomaly. (No idea how he's done that!)
I think you need him to come clean about what he has actually done.To throw in another possibility, could DVLA cancel the private plate because he has clearly been doing something dodgy with it. Is it a valuable plate?
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff