Random fine for entry of congestion charge zone - London
Discussion
Hallo all,
I wonder if someone here could shed some light on this situation.
A few weeks ago I was forced to take a detour into the congestion zone of London. At the time traffic was actually minimal, but I do acknowledge there's a charge to enter the zone. So, I was surprised to find last week a letter come through to me from Transport for London (TFL) stating I had to pay a £65 fine or else contest this, otherwise the fine rises to £120, then £195.
Now, £65 is bad enough, but what if for whatever reason the driver didn't read the fine notice and had to pay £195 simply for entering central London!?!?
I'm annoyed this fine has come through, as I received no prior warning I was due to pay the charge. Of course, i'm prepared to pay the charge but to get whacked with a fine without any request for payment seems ridiculous, and must be a huge money making scam for TFL at the expense of innocent drivers! ;(
Has anyone else been in this situation (ie. Fined without any other notice), and what can I do to avoid this happening again. To make the most scam money, I suspect TFL require the motorist to voluntarily visit their payment website otherwise sent a juicy fine to the driver.
What's happening here.
Thanks in advance!
T
I wonder if someone here could shed some light on this situation.
A few weeks ago I was forced to take a detour into the congestion zone of London. At the time traffic was actually minimal, but I do acknowledge there's a charge to enter the zone. So, I was surprised to find last week a letter come through to me from Transport for London (TFL) stating I had to pay a £65 fine or else contest this, otherwise the fine rises to £120, then £195.
Now, £65 is bad enough, but what if for whatever reason the driver didn't read the fine notice and had to pay £195 simply for entering central London!?!?
I'm annoyed this fine has come through, as I received no prior warning I was due to pay the charge. Of course, i'm prepared to pay the charge but to get whacked with a fine without any request for payment seems ridiculous, and must be a huge money making scam for TFL at the expense of innocent drivers! ;(
Has anyone else been in this situation (ie. Fined without any other notice), and what can I do to avoid this happening again. To make the most scam money, I suspect TFL require the motorist to voluntarily visit their payment website otherwise sent a juicy fine to the driver.
What's happening here.
Thanks in advance!
T
NorthernSky said:
A few weeks ago I was forced to take a detour into the congestion zone of London.
OK...? Hardly "random", then.NorthernSky said:
I'm annoyed this fine has come through, as I received no prior warning I was due to pay the charge.
Can you just clarify what you're complaining about, please?- You didn't know you'd entered the zone
- You knew you'd entered, but didn't know you had to arrange payment and thought you'd be sent a bill
- You paid but it didn't get logged for some reason
Mojooo said:
To be fair you do get 1 day I think to find out what to do and pay the charge.
Pay in advance or on the day - £11.50Pay the following day - £14
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge...
OP, you can make an appeal if you were "forced" into the CC zone due to traffic works or diversion routes and can provide supporting evidence...below link is to a Tfl doc from 2013, but should still help.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/helping-you-with-your-cc...
5 I was forced into the Congestion Charging zone
TfL will not accept a representation simply because you state you were forced into the Congestion Charging zone. Although unfortunate, you would have known that you had entered the Congestion Charging zone and were therefore, aware that you needed to purchase the Congestion Charge. You would have also had an opportunity to purchase the Congestion Charge using one of the payment methods, including being able to pay the next day.
Examples would include, being forced into the Congestion Charging zone due to traffic flow or a rogue driver; needing to find a petrol station, or because you broke down.
6 I was diverted into the Congestion Charging zone
TfL makes every effort to ensure that PCNs are not issued as a consequence of an official diversion into the Congestion Charging zone. However, this is not always possible where the diversions are not scheduled in advance or arises as a result of an unexpected incident, for example an unauthorised protest.
If you provide evidence of the diversion, TfL will make the appropriate investigations. If we can confirm the diversion and that it was the only reason you entered the Congestion Charging zone, then we will cancel your PCN. Please note however that it must also be clear that you exited the Congestion Charging zone at the first opportunity using the
nearest available exit point.
Suggested supporting evidence: Details of when and where the diversion took place, how it affected your journey and if applicable, details of the information provided by the police.
One irritating thing TFL did was to remove the ability to check if you been in the CC Zone during charge hours via the CC website....so you may not be 100% sure if you have crossed the boundary, especially with nervous drivers or drivers inexperienced with driving in London...like my mum...and take a wrong turn and end up inside...maybe...so you take the chance of the fine in the post, or just pay up even if you had no liability at all...that to me is wrong.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/helping-you-with-your-cc...
5 I was forced into the Congestion Charging zone
TfL will not accept a representation simply because you state you were forced into the Congestion Charging zone. Although unfortunate, you would have known that you had entered the Congestion Charging zone and were therefore, aware that you needed to purchase the Congestion Charge. You would have also had an opportunity to purchase the Congestion Charge using one of the payment methods, including being able to pay the next day.
Examples would include, being forced into the Congestion Charging zone due to traffic flow or a rogue driver; needing to find a petrol station, or because you broke down.
6 I was diverted into the Congestion Charging zone
TfL makes every effort to ensure that PCNs are not issued as a consequence of an official diversion into the Congestion Charging zone. However, this is not always possible where the diversions are not scheduled in advance or arises as a result of an unexpected incident, for example an unauthorised protest.
If you provide evidence of the diversion, TfL will make the appropriate investigations. If we can confirm the diversion and that it was the only reason you entered the Congestion Charging zone, then we will cancel your PCN. Please note however that it must also be clear that you exited the Congestion Charging zone at the first opportunity using the
nearest available exit point.
Suggested supporting evidence: Details of when and where the diversion took place, how it affected your journey and if applicable, details of the information provided by the police.
One irritating thing TFL did was to remove the ability to check if you been in the CC Zone during charge hours via the CC website....so you may not be 100% sure if you have crossed the boundary, especially with nervous drivers or drivers inexperienced with driving in London...like my mum...and take a wrong turn and end up inside...maybe...so you take the chance of the fine in the post, or just pay up even if you had no liability at all...that to me is wrong.
Dj Steve, thanks for that ammo. Much appreciated. 
2cvs, I note your response is impatient in tone! Option B- I am surprised I'm being shafted for 65 quid, as another poster commented, apparently a driver gets a pitiful single day to pay the congestion sum.
My transgression isn't worth 65 quid, so my beef is with TFL for shafting people for such a huge amount without any prior warning.
2cvs, I note your response is impatient in tone! Option B- I am surprised I'm being shafted for 65 quid, as another poster commented, apparently a driver gets a pitiful single day to pay the congestion sum.
My transgression isn't worth 65 quid, so my beef is with TFL for shafting people for such a huge amount without any prior warning.
MrBarry123 said:
So to clarify OP; you entered the zone, knew there was a charge but didn't pay, and are now surprised you've got a fine for not paying the charge?
I'm guilty of entering the zone.I wish I wasn't hammered for a whole tank of diesel for simply forgetting, having a busy day and not paying within 24hrs.
Do you see how this must be a method to cash in? You are a member of a petrol head forum, does your sympathy lie with the motorist or the ruthless money making TFL scam system? O: O: ?
NorthernSky said:
Option B- I am surprised I'm being shafted for 65 quid, as another poster commented, apparently a driver gets a pitiful single day to pay the congestion sum.
Even that's a fairly new change - June 2014. It was always on-the-day only, right from when it started in 2003.Sorry, but if you're not used to something like the CC, it's your responsibility to find out when and where and how to pay.
NorthernSky said:
I'm guilty of entering the zone.
I wish I wasn't hammered for a whole tank of diesel for simply forgetting, having a busy day and not paying within 24hrs.
Do you see how this must be a method to cash in? You are a member of a petrol head forum, does your sympathy lie with the motorist or the ruthless money making TFL scam system? O: O: ?
Mate, some on here suit mumsnet far more than a car and driving forum, you posted, therefore you are fair game for antagonism. They won't let common sense or fair play come into the chance of bashing someone who is merely asking advice, that would be friendly, and not what PH needs to be apparently!I wish I wasn't hammered for a whole tank of diesel for simply forgetting, having a busy day and not paying within 24hrs.
Do you see how this must be a method to cash in? You are a member of a petrol head forum, does your sympathy lie with the motorist or the ruthless money making TFL scam system? O: O: ?
In my opinion, unless you are familiar with the congestion charge, you wouldn't necessarily be aware that you have to pay within 24 hours, I only found out by accident myself when I went in for the first time after it was set up. Of course they make it difficult, someone has to fund boris campaign funds, and clown lessons!
Right, I wasn't aware.
And I bet thousands of others aren't either, until this giant fine comes in the post.
Seems like good business sense to suck money out of people like this, granted. I am just bitter about finding out like this, it's a very underhand way to squeeze money from the innocent.
Hopefully they'll introduce a similar charge for cyclists who enter this zone. (:
Thanks for your reply and information on the introduction of this charge. Hopefully mayor Boris Johnson will use my funds to improve the road network, but for some reason I suspect my money will now be added to the TfL management bonus pot.
):
And I bet thousands of others aren't either, until this giant fine comes in the post.
Seems like good business sense to suck money out of people like this, granted. I am just bitter about finding out like this, it's a very underhand way to squeeze money from the innocent.
Hopefully they'll introduce a similar charge for cyclists who enter this zone. (:
Thanks for your reply and information on the introduction of this charge. Hopefully mayor Boris Johnson will use my funds to improve the road network, but for some reason I suspect my money will now be added to the TfL management bonus pot.
):
daytona355 said:
NorthernSky said:
I'm guilty of entering the zone.
I wish I wasn't hammered for a whole tank of diesel for simply forgetting, having a busy day and not paying within 24hrs.
Do you see how this must be a method to cash in? You are a member of a petrol head forum, does your sympathy lie with the motorist or the ruthless money making TFL scam system? O: O: ?
Mate, some on here suit mumsnet far more than a car and driving forum, you posted, therefore you are fair game for antagonism. They won't let common sense or fair play come into the chance of bashing someone who is merely asking advice, that would be friendly, and not what PH needs to be apparently!I wish I wasn't hammered for a whole tank of diesel for simply forgetting, having a busy day and not paying within 24hrs.
Do you see how this must be a method to cash in? You are a member of a petrol head forum, does your sympathy lie with the motorist or the ruthless money making TFL scam system? O: O: ?
In my opinion, unless you are familiar with the congestion charge, you wouldn't necessarily be aware that you have to pay within 24 hours, I only found out by accident myself when I went in for the first time after it was set up. Of course they make it difficult, someone has to fund boris campaign funds, and clown lessons!
Well, I have to say, responders have given up useful information which I am grateful for.
As for TfL- it seems they are right when they tell me on the radio adverts that every journey matters'.
Especially if I'm diverted into the congestion zone. Money for Boris's next mad schemes D: !!! Doh !
NorthernSky said:
Money for Boris's next mad schemes D: !!! Doh !
If you're going to make a political point of it, it might be worth remembering that it was Ken (as an independent) who was mayor when it was introduced, and Boris who was mayor when the extra day to pay was introduced...NorthernSky said:
Right, I wasn't aware.
And I bet thousands of others aren't either, until this giant fine comes in the post.
Seems like good business sense to suck money out of people like this, granted. I am just bitter about finding out like this, it's a very underhand way to squeeze money from the innocent.
Hopefully they'll introduce a similar charge for cyclists who enter this zone. (:
Thanks for your reply and information on the introduction of this charge. Hopefully mayor Boris Johnson will use my funds to improve the road network, but for some reason I suspect my money will now be added to the TfL management bonus pot.
):
With all due respect, the CC has been operational for over 13 years now, and all access points are well signposted to inform even first time visitors from outside London.And I bet thousands of others aren't either, until this giant fine comes in the post.
Seems like good business sense to suck money out of people like this, granted. I am just bitter about finding out like this, it's a very underhand way to squeeze money from the innocent.
Hopefully they'll introduce a similar charge for cyclists who enter this zone. (:
Thanks for your reply and information on the introduction of this charge. Hopefully mayor Boris Johnson will use my funds to improve the road network, but for some reason I suspect my money will now be added to the TfL management bonus pot.
):
You get 24 hours either side of your visit to pay for your entry.
If you were on diversion and forced into the zone without choice then they'll cancel the PCN if you can provide evidence of the diversion.
I skirt the CC zone for work sometimes as a supplier is just on the edge near Waterloo and you can get to it without using the CC zone. I'm always worried about going there and ending up in the wrong lane and going into the zone resulting in either needing to pay for a whole day when I was probably there for less than 10 minutes or getting a fine. I shouldn't need to pay to get to the address but it is nerve wracking.
You drove in the zone, you should pay the fee. I wouldn't say your fine is random, I'd say it was justified unless you were on diversion.
If you were on diversion and forced into the zone without choice then they'll cancel the PCN if you can provide evidence of the diversion.
I skirt the CC zone for work sometimes as a supplier is just on the edge near Waterloo and you can get to it without using the CC zone. I'm always worried about going there and ending up in the wrong lane and going into the zone resulting in either needing to pay for a whole day when I was probably there for less than 10 minutes or getting a fine. I shouldn't need to pay to get to the address but it is nerve wracking.
You drove in the zone, you should pay the fee. I wouldn't say your fine is random, I'd say it was justified unless you were on diversion.
Nothing on that sign says 'pay by tomorrow.'
= unclear and outrageously overpriced fine.
With hundreds of other signs, lights, signals, cars, pedestrians, scooters, trikes, bikes, taxis, pigeons, etc. They must know the signs are only there so smug TFL tax collectors can quote them to the driver in the mail along with their fines.
);
= unclear and outrageously overpriced fine.
With hundreds of other signs, lights, signals, cars, pedestrians, scooters, trikes, bikes, taxis, pigeons, etc. They must know the signs are only there so smug TFL tax collectors can quote them to the driver in the mail along with their fines.
);
ashleyman said:
You get 24 hours either side of your visit to pay for your entry.
If you were on diversion and forced into the zone without choice then they'll cancel the PCN if you can provide evidence of the diversion.
I skirt the CC zone for work sometimes as a supplier is just on the edge near Waterloo and you can get to it without using the CC zone. I'm always worried about going there and ending up in the wrong lane and going into the zone resulting in either needing to pay for a whole day when I was probably there for less than 10 minutes or getting a fine. I shouldn't need to pay to get to the address but it is nerve wracking.
You drove in the zone, you should pay the fee. I wouldn't say your fine is random, I'd say it was justified unless you were on diversion.
An interesting scenario but sadly I disagree. Nothing about a no-notice fine is justifiable. Paying 65 quid for spending five minutes in the red zone... doesn't seem the cost equals the transgression. O:If you were on diversion and forced into the zone without choice then they'll cancel the PCN if you can provide evidence of the diversion.
I skirt the CC zone for work sometimes as a supplier is just on the edge near Waterloo and you can get to it without using the CC zone. I'm always worried about going there and ending up in the wrong lane and going into the zone resulting in either needing to pay for a whole day when I was probably there for less than 10 minutes or getting a fine. I shouldn't need to pay to get to the address but it is nerve wracking.
You drove in the zone, you should pay the fee. I wouldn't say your fine is random, I'd say it was justified unless you were on diversion.
NorthernSky said:
An interesting scenario but sadly I disagree. Nothing about a no-notice fine is justifiable. Paying 65 quid for spending five minutes in the red zone... doesn't seem the cost equals the transgression. O:
I am with you on the fine being excessive for the amount of time in the zone. But if you went in the zone its your responsibility to figure out if you need to pay or not before or after the fact. You take the risk of getting a fine by not paying 24 hours either side of the visit.. If you were genuinely diverted into the Congestion Charge zone (road works, road closures etc..) then you have a case, if you weren't then you need to suck it up and pay the fine and remember not to do it again.
Edited by ashleyman on Tuesday 8th March 00:20
Like any other service, surely the onus should be on them to justify why I need to pay such a vast sum for the privilege of spending five minutes in the red zone.
It should not be the other way around.
At the very least surely to justify 65 quid the sign needs to make clear the 24hr/48hr payment window.
It is a classic catch 22 scenario where the individual is mercilessly squeezed for money. I guarantee I need the 65 who'd more than these TFL...
),: this culture of blame the individual for the greed of the state needs to end. I need sympathy here! Surely you would agree if in my shoes.
Anyway thanks for the contributions.
It should not be the other way around.
At the very least surely to justify 65 quid the sign needs to make clear the 24hr/48hr payment window.
It is a classic catch 22 scenario where the individual is mercilessly squeezed for money. I guarantee I need the 65 who'd more than these TFL...
),: this culture of blame the individual for the greed of the state needs to end. I need sympathy here! Surely you would agree if in my shoes.
Anyway thanks for the contributions.
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