Do PCNs have to be written in Plain English?
Discussion
Issued in Ambleside, Cumbria. The driver had parked at 11.55 am, and failed to display a parking disc, which can be obtained from local shops.
Not a problem - a clear contravention of the rules, but understanding the ticket is a different matter?
It seems to imply that you have 28 days to pay from the date of issue...
Not a problem - a clear contravention of the rules, but understanding the ticket is a different matter?
It seems to imply that you have 28 days to pay from the date of issue...
PCN said:
(i.e. 09/04/16)
and you get a 50% discount if you pay within 28 days from the date of issue... PCN said:
(i.e. 26/03/16)
According to the ticket, the tax disc was missing too!Edited by Mill Wheel on Monday 14th March 08:02
Have you misread 09/04 as 09/03 [OP's first quote subsequently edited]?
The dates on the ticket are the dates by which you have to act. Seems perfectly clear to me. Ticket issued on 12 March, discount if paid by 26 Mar, full amount payable by 9 Apr.
The dates on the ticket are the dates by which you have to act. Seems perfectly clear to me. Ticket issued on 12 March, discount if paid by 26 Mar, full amount payable by 9 Apr.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 14th March 08:06
OP, you may need to get a new calculator. 
The end dates shown are correct for a PCN issue date of 13th March 2016.
The poster who said 12th March has forgotten that 2016 is a leap year.
The plain English comment is accurate though because the wording is ambiguous.
The dates are meant to refer to 'the last day of the period'.
However in both cases they come immediately after 'the date on which this PCN was served'.
If he were still alive Sir Ernest Gowers would be in despair.
The end dates shown are correct for a PCN issue date of 13th March 2016.
The poster who said 12th March has forgotten that 2016 is a leap year.
The plain English comment is accurate though because the wording is ambiguous.
The dates are meant to refer to 'the last day of the period'.
However in both cases they come immediately after 'the date on which this PCN was served'.
If he were still alive Sir Ernest Gowers would be in despair.
Greg66 said:
Want to have another go at that?
My sincere apologies. I was having a 'Merlot Moment' (from a somewhat over indulgent weekend: I will not be driving today!). 
herewego said:
Is there a date of issue on the ticket because those dates will not be ambiguous if related to the date of issue, although they are when taken in isolation.
Yes, that if is the whole point. The subject of the OP's thread is Plain English not the date(s). The ambiguity is over which words those dates are referring to. The order of words can affect their meaning/interpretation. Here, their placement at the end in each case would imply that it is the PCN issue date rather than the period of 28 days.That's worth sending here, they'd love it! http://www.plainenglish.co.uk
Red Devil said:
Yes, that if is the whole point. The subject of the OP's thread is Plain English not the date(s). The ambiguity is over which words those dates are referring to. The order of words can affect their meaning/interpretation. Here, their placement at the end in each case would imply that it is the PCN issue date rather than the period of 28 days.
That is how I saw it - it was posted on a council parking protest page on Facebook this morning!It clearly needs revamping, as the ticket also identifies the tax disc as being missing - an irrelevance these days!
V8LM said:
i.e. (id est) is used to elaborate and clarify and is used here to give the dates by which the payments need to be made in the two scenarios. Seems clear to me.
exactly , but see my reply to realist's point... there's always someonewho wants to shout 'man overboard' and claim it's invalidMill Wheel said:
That is how I saw it - it was posted on a council parking protest page on Facebook this morning!
It clearly needs revamping, as the ticket also identifies the tax disc as being missing - an irrelevance these days!
Major software overhaul needed to remove it, Local Authorities won't pay to have that done, so the tax disk details are just omitted or put as missing (depending on the way the computers work)It clearly needs revamping, as the ticket also identifies the tax disc as being missing - an irrelevance these days!
V8LM said:
i.e. (id est) is used to elaborate and clarify and is used here to give the dates by which the payments need to be made in the two scenarios. Seems clear to me.
I take issue with the clarify bit.If they waned to clarify the mater, they should not be adding the dates by which it should be paid right after the declaration "...the date this PCN was served (i.e. 26/03/2016)".
It COULD say "the payment needs to be made by the 26/03/2016 i.e. within 14 days of the date on which this PCN was served" which is accurate and unambiguous.
The date of issue is clearly stated elsewhere, so placing the pay by date right after the words "PCN was served THAT IS 26/03/2016" is simply misleading, and could be made unambiguous in the manner described above.
This is the same council who were challenged by disabled drivers about the conditions implied for disabled parking in their car parks, and lost the case... then launched a costly appeal against the disabled drivers, and lost that too, so you would think they would have been more careful over wording that from comments here and elsewhere is not up to scratch.
I believe this has been forwarded to the Campaign for Plain English, and if their report is posted on the Facebook page, I'll let you know!
Mill Wheel said:
This is the same council who were challenged by disabled drivers about the conditions implied for disabled parking in their car parks, and lost the case... then launched a costly appeal against the disabled drivers, and lost that too, so you would think they would have been more careful over wording that from comments here and elsewhere is not up to scratch.
Ah yes, SLDC - a £55k loss to the public purse. The usual 'administrative error' excuse trotted out. A face-saving load of bovine excrement.Especially as concerns had been flagged up beforehand by a national charity for the disabled - http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/101628...
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