A316 (west London) average speed camera trial switch on
Discussion
Following on from Dave Finney's discussion about the A40 scheme (link below), the A316 installation is well under way. This is for a 2 year average speed camera trial over the section from Hogarth (Chiswick/Hammersmith) to the M3 J1 - pretty much all of it. I hadn't seen much activity but in the last week or so the old Gatsos have been disappearing and the new average camera types are going up with the painted calib. marks on the carriageway. Fast progress, presumably night works.
The scheme is claimed to be live in "early summer 2016" but there's no mention of what this means in terms of a firm date. TFL link to come. I would expect around mid-May, but it pretty much all seems to be ready at least from Manor Circus to the Hanworth exit where the 50 limit starts.
I'm not about to express an opinion about the merits of the scheme, this is just a pointer to flag it up for you out there who may not be aware. There's no signage about the change at all, it's been scarcely covered in the local press and I've only become aware of it in the last 6 months through casual paper reading in cafes and browsing through these forums.
I am not a road technician and have no idea of the specification or capabilities of the cameras or system as a whole. Your guess as to what you can and can't get away with is as good as mine!
A40 scheme discussion:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A2 scheme discussion:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=156...
The scheme is claimed to be live in "early summer 2016" but there's no mention of what this means in terms of a firm date. TFL link to come. I would expect around mid-May, but it pretty much all seems to be ready at least from Manor Circus to the Hanworth exit where the 50 limit starts.
I'm not about to express an opinion about the merits of the scheme, this is just a pointer to flag it up for you out there who may not be aware. There's no signage about the change at all, it's been scarcely covered in the local press and I've only become aware of it in the last 6 months through casual paper reading in cafes and browsing through these forums.
I am not a road technician and have no idea of the specification or capabilities of the cameras or system as a whole. Your guess as to what you can and can't get away with is as good as mine!
A40 scheme discussion:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A2 scheme discussion:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=156...
Cheers for posting this, I noticed all the cameras yesterday.
Any idea how they work? I noticed them on the way into London before the first roundabout but the next one is on Twickenham bridge do they take a average of what speed you should been doing around the roundabouts and then work out how much time you were stopped at the traffic lights too?
Any idea how they work? I noticed them on the way into London before the first roundabout but the next one is on Twickenham bridge do they take a average of what speed you should been doing around the roundabouts and then work out how much time you were stopped at the traffic lights too?
thanks for the new info also was discussed here, such a shame all our roads being camera'd up and we will all have to drive as slow as the nitwits who really need such low speed limits to avoid crashing into each other.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
pacenotes said:
Cheers for posting this, I noticed all the cameras yesterday.
Any idea how they work? I noticed them on the way into London before the first roundabout but the next one is on Twickenham bridge do they take a average of what speed you should been doing around the roundabouts and then work out how much time you were stopped at the traffic lights too?
The way the average speed cameras work seems to be:Any idea how they work? I noticed them on the way into London before the first roundabout but the next one is on Twickenham bridge do they take a average of what speed you should been doing around the roundabouts and then work out how much time you were stopped at the traffic lights too?
a) each camera sends video to a computer
b) the computer scans each frame of the video looking for number plates
c) when it sees a number plate it:
1) records the picture (that frame of the video)
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's number plate and the time.
The computer then subtracts the times when each vehicle was at each camera and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle took less time than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras! If you stop at your traffic lights or roundabout, you could exceed the limit by some margin and still not be done.
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Dosent matter ANPR camras are just before the new speed camera anyway and are at most junctions off the A316. Dont mind ANPR cameras myself, They are looking for Tax and insurance. I was just wondering how these new camers worked when you will be stopped at the lights for 90 seconds and then drive past.
Seems it has been answered that thankfully it does not take the time of the lights off your time between the two cameras.
Seems it has been answered that thankfully it does not take the time of the lights off your time between the two cameras.
These SafeZone cameras are not bothered about traffic lights, they just time you between any two pairs and if your average is over the limit, you will be flagged up.
They operate as ANPR but will also take a general photo of your car on the road, although the detail isn't necessarily going to be good enough to resolve the face of the driver.
Another point is that they operate bi-directionally if mounted on the central reservation, so effectively each camera can be forward facing and rearward facing and cover both directions.
They operate as ANPR but will also take a general photo of your car on the road, although the detail isn't necessarily going to be good enough to resolve the face of the driver.
Another point is that they operate bi-directionally if mounted on the central reservation, so effectively each camera can be forward facing and rearward facing and cover both directions.
Dave Finney said:
The way the average speed cameras work seems to be:
a) each camera sends video to a computer
b) the computer scans each frame of the video looking for number plates
c) when it sees a number plate it:
1) records the picture (that frame of the video)
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's number plate and the time.
The computer then subtracts the times when each vehicle was at each camera and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle took less time than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras! If you stop at your traffic lights or roundabout, you could exceed the limit by some margin and still not be done.
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Would have fa) each camera sends video to a computer
b) the computer scans each frame of the video looking for number plates
c) when it sees a number plate it:
1) records the picture (that frame of the video)
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's number plate and the time.
The computer then subtracts the times when each vehicle was at each camera and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle took less time than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras! If you stop at your traffic lights or roundabout, you could exceed the limit by some margin and still not be done.
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
king hard job scanning the occupants from a high level rear camera which is designed to pick out our nice uniform spaced number plates with additional LED lighting to enhance the photo resolution.Even more difficult to see through the walls and rear doors in a van.
You will also notice that the camera are set in groups to measure over distance without roundabouts or traffic lights in between.
Please check the rubbish intel you have before posting it up DOH !
RobinOakapple said:
He should check that it's been scientifically tested too.
I use that route day and night and its Average Speed Zones and very easy to spot and work outJust need to educate drivers that they do not need to slam on the brakes at very camera or
sit in lane 2 unless passing vehicles in lane 1.
The speed limit issue does not bother me as most times am driving 10 and 32 tonners and 40
is quite adequate and that road in a large truck.
Rubbish Intel is the Mother of all f
k ups.SVTRick said:
...You will also notice that the camera are set in groups to measure over distance without roundabouts or traffic lights in between.
Please check the rubbish intel you have before posting it up DOH !
...apart from the installation of Vector Average speed cameras on the A40 as an example, which includes about 4 sets of traffic lights within the zoned system, where there is typically at least one camera situated between each set of lights.Please check the rubbish intel you have before posting it up DOH !
rallycross said:
thanks for the new info also was discussed here, such a shame all our roads being camera'd up and we will all have to drive as slow as the nitwits who really need such low speed limits to avoid crashing into each other.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As apposite to driving gods like yourself who think that speed limits don't apply to them?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So now the have put up a series of mobile dot matrix signs with contradicting messages! The permanent sign North of Hospital Bridge Road displays the message "From 13 June 16 Gt Chertsey Road Average Speed Enforcement" whist the other temporary signs along the A316 displayed the message "A316 Average Speed Enforcement". Is it too much to ask that the bas***** give us clear information about when it goes live.
I'm pretty sure it is unenforceable in its current state as there is only a single permanent sign warning of an average speed check on the southbound carriageway opp. Old Deer Park. I don't even think the cameras are live yet as none of them have the lights on.
At any rate It's clear it is confusing drivers with some crawling along to try and drop their speed average.
I have written to TFL to ask for clarity.
I'm pretty sure it is unenforceable in its current state as there is only a single permanent sign warning of an average speed check on the southbound carriageway opp. Old Deer Park. I don't even think the cameras are live yet as none of them have the lights on.
At any rate It's clear it is confusing drivers with some crawling along to try and drop their speed average.
I have written to TFL to ask for clarity.
SVTRick said:
Dave Finney said:
The way the average speed cameras work seems to be:
a) each camera sends video to a computer
b) the computer scans each frame of the video looking for number plates
c) when it sees a number plate it:
1) records the picture (that frame of the video)
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's number plate and the time.
The computer then subtracts the times when each vehicle was at each camera and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle took less time than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras! If you stop at your traffic lights or roundabout, you could exceed the limit by some margin and still not be done.
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
Would have fa) each camera sends video to a computer
b) the computer scans each frame of the video looking for number plates
c) when it sees a number plate it:
1) records the picture (that frame of the video)
2) reads and records the registration number
3) records the time
So, for each camera, there's a picture of every vehicle that passed, with it's number plate and the time.
The computer then subtracts the times when each vehicle was at each camera and, knowing the distance between each camera, they can see if any vehicle took less time than is allowed. If so, that vehicle must have travelled faster than the limit.
Note, it doesn't matter what speed you pass each camera. You could do 80mph past every camera and you shouldn't be prosecuted for speeding, so long as you stop for a while in between each pair of cameras! If you stop at your traffic lights or roundabout, you could exceed the limit by some margin and still not be done.
You'll also note that every single vehicle is photographed, speeding or not, time and time again as it travels. This means the authorities know where every single vehicle was, and when it was there, day or night, all of the time. They might also see from the photographs how many occupants in each vehicle, age, sex, descriptions etc. This can be very useful to track terrorists, criminals, demonstrators, activists, political opposition groups, and anyone else the authorities may wish to monitor.
king hard job scanning the occupants from a high level rear camera which is designed to pick out our nice uniform spaced number plates with additional LED lighting to enhance the photo resolution.Even more difficult to see through the walls and rear doors in a van.
You will also notice that the camera are set in groups to measure over distance without roundabouts or traffic lights in between.
Please check the rubbish intel you have before posting it up DOH !
oldskoolflash said:
So now the have put up a series of mobile dot matrix signs with contradicting messages! The permanent sign North of Hospital Bridge Road displays the message "From 13 June 16 Gt Chertsey Road Average Speed Enforcement" whist the other temporary signs along the A316 displayed the message "A316 Average Speed Enforcement". Is it too much to ask that the bas***** give us clear information about when it goes live.
I'm pretty sure it is unenforceable in its current state as there is only a single permanent sign warning of an average speed check on the southbound carriageway opp. Old Deer Park. I don't even think the cameras are live yet as none of them have the lights on.
At any rate It's clear it is confusing drivers with some crawling along to try and drop their speed average.
I have written to TFL to ask for clarity.
Much respect to the awesome lurking skillsI'm pretty sure it is unenforceable in its current state as there is only a single permanent sign warning of an average speed check on the southbound carriageway opp. Old Deer Park. I don't even think the cameras are live yet as none of them have the lights on.
At any rate It's clear it is confusing drivers with some crawling along to try and drop their speed average.
I have written to TFL to ask for clarity.
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