Rejecting a new car
Discussion
I have a query about rejecting a new car, I wonder if you kind souls might lend me your ear?
I bought an i3 <6 months ago. I reported a fault with 28 days where the active cruise control didn't work correctly. it's been into the dealer's a few times now. The dealer have been great, they've tried to help with the problem but we just don't seem to be able to resolve it. I have no issues with them whatsoever.
I'm aware of the changes involving the Consumer Rights Act but there are some complications and I don't quite understand how they affect me.
The car is bought via the dealer who acts as an 'Agent' for the manufacturer. On the face of it, this sounds different to the usual method of purchase where my contract is with the dealer themselves. Does this 'Agent' status affect who my legal contract is with?
The fault has been recorded happening on camera, it's not in dispute, but they're unable to 'prove' that the fault occurs because the car doesn't record the error and we haven't managed to recreate the error when test driving with a technician.
What happens in this situation? If their car doesn't have the ability to record the error but it definitely occurs then we're in a stalemate. I appreciate that the manufacturer will want to avoid having the car rejected and they will also be keen to understand why the fault exists but in the mean time I'm left with a car that has a serious fault.
If it was an easily identifiable fault then this situation would be easy and I could have handed it back within the first 28 days, I'm on friendly terms with the dealer and I've been more the reasonable with them so far.
Thanks in advance
I bought an i3 <6 months ago. I reported a fault with 28 days where the active cruise control didn't work correctly. it's been into the dealer's a few times now. The dealer have been great, they've tried to help with the problem but we just don't seem to be able to resolve it. I have no issues with them whatsoever.
I'm aware of the changes involving the Consumer Rights Act but there are some complications and I don't quite understand how they affect me.
The car is bought via the dealer who acts as an 'Agent' for the manufacturer. On the face of it, this sounds different to the usual method of purchase where my contract is with the dealer themselves. Does this 'Agent' status affect who my legal contract is with?
The fault has been recorded happening on camera, it's not in dispute, but they're unable to 'prove' that the fault occurs because the car doesn't record the error and we haven't managed to recreate the error when test driving with a technician.
What happens in this situation? If their car doesn't have the ability to record the error but it definitely occurs then we're in a stalemate. I appreciate that the manufacturer will want to avoid having the car rejected and they will also be keen to understand why the fault exists but in the mean time I'm left with a car that has a serious fault.
If it was an easily identifiable fault then this situation would be easy and I could have handed it back within the first 28 days, I'm on friendly terms with the dealer and I've been more the reasonable with them so far.
Thanks in advance
I had an electrical fault with my motorcycle bought new from a BMW dealer.
The fault kept re-occurring with no record on the diagnostics.
After three months, they raised a Pumah case with BMW Technical, but still didn't resolve it.
Finally, after twelve months I was able to reject the bike with then 5,500 miles.
Your contract is with the dealer, so advise them that you wish to reject the car. They should then put the process in place with BMW.
Or, if you wish, put them under notice to finally fix the car.
BMW do have funds in place to resolve these issues so keep pestering.
If the dealer is not being very helpful, copy BMW Customer Service in on the emails and keep everything in writing.
I have to say that, once I went down the rejection process, both the dealer and BMW were great.
Good luck!
The fault kept re-occurring with no record on the diagnostics.
After three months, they raised a Pumah case with BMW Technical, but still didn't resolve it.
Finally, after twelve months I was able to reject the bike with then 5,500 miles.
Your contract is with the dealer, so advise them that you wish to reject the car. They should then put the process in place with BMW.
Or, if you wish, put them under notice to finally fix the car.
BMW do have funds in place to resolve these issues so keep pestering.
If the dealer is not being very helpful, copy BMW Customer Service in on the emails and keep everything in writing.
I have to say that, once I went down the rejection process, both the dealer and BMW were great.
Good luck!
Thanks Davel,
I've no doubt about them at all, i think they'll do the right thing. I'm not the 'stomp my feet and shout a lot' sort of person so giving them plenty of leeway and being more reasonable than I legally need to.
They have the car for an extended investigation so we'll see what they come back with. At that point I hope to take things further with the desired outcome.
I've no doubt about them at all, i think they'll do the right thing. I'm not the 'stomp my feet and shout a lot' sort of person so giving them plenty of leeway and being more reasonable than I legally need to.
They have the car for an extended investigation so we'll see what they come back with. At that point I hope to take things further with the desired outcome.
MagicalTrevor said:
Thanks Davel,
I'm not the 'stomp my feet and shout a lot' sort of person so giving them plenty of leeway and being more reasonable than I legally need to.
They have the car for an extended investigation so we'll see what they come back with. At that point I hope to take things further with the desired outcome.
They took my bike in for the 5,000 mile service and fitted extra stuff and it came back on the Thursday afternoon for it to be dead again on the Saturday.I'm not the 'stomp my feet and shout a lot' sort of person so giving them plenty of leeway and being more reasonable than I legally need to.
They have the car for an extended investigation so we'll see what they come back with. At that point I hope to take things further with the desired outcome.
I don't stomp my feet either but you reach the stage where enough is enough.
Good luck!
Active cruise control sometimes ignores the car in front. That's ignoring the usual limitations of such a system (poor weather, glare, etc), we're talking about no glare, dry, clear day.
Normally, if weather conditions affect it then it will just disable and refuse to work. As frustrating as that might be, I accept it as a limitation.
Normally, if weather conditions affect it then it will just disable and refuse to work. As frustrating as that might be, I accept it as a limitation.
BertBert said:
I'd say that was well within the normal operating parameters of "new-fangled-technology" 
That seems like a big issue in my book.MagicalTrevor said:
Active cruise control sometimes ignores the car in front.
Make dealer aware you want to reject. If they then start passing you about like a parcel then highlighting the issues on social media seems to get things sorted.
In the event you get seriously bad treatment then you might get a sad face photo in the Daily Mail
MagicalTrevor said:
Where does the burden of proof lie though? This is the major thing I'm struggling to work out. They say they "need" proof but is this just a 'nice to have' for them?
Well, ask the same question to yourself. As a business, would you want evidence that something was wrong before you took a financial hit?POORCARDEALER said:
Perfectly reasonable to reject a car that cannot be fixed.
As a side comment what on earth are these cars going to be like to deal with used, at 4 or 5 years old when they cant be fixed when they are nearly new by the dealers.....throwaway.
What do you mean "these cars"?As a side comment what on earth are these cars going to be like to deal with used, at 4 or 5 years old when they cant be fixed when they are nearly new by the dealers.....throwaway.
Plenty of new tech has teething problems.
Presumably if the car gets to 4-5 years old then the problems will be sorted rather than left to fester!
xxChrisxx said:
MagicalTrevor said:
Where does the burden of proof lie though? This is the major thing I'm struggling to work out. They say they "need" proof but is this just a 'nice to have' for them?
Well, ask the same question to yourself. As a business, would you want evidence that something was wrong before you took a financial hit?
What if the fault doesn't manifest itself whilst they're in it? We're potentially in a stalemate situation.
MagicalTrevor said:
Absolutely, that's why I'm being extra-reasonable
What if the fault doesn't manifest itself whilst they're in it? We're potentially in a stalemate situation.
Unfortunately yes. The dealer can't do anything until a fault is actually demonstrated. Intermittent faults are a massive pain in the arse for everyone involved.What if the fault doesn't manifest itself whilst they're in it? We're potentially in a stalemate situation.
If they don't find it on the extended drive, it may be worth making a log of when it happens. Errors that are intermittent but repeat are very rarely random, but have patterns that are hard to find.
Edited by xxChrisxx on Tuesday 15th March 09:02
xxChrisxx said:
Unfortunately yes. The dealer can't do anything until a fault is actually demonstrated. Intermittent faults are a massive pain in the arse for everyone involved.
The fault is on camera and the company doesn't dispute it, though.Seems they are somewhat delaying for no reason.
If they don't dispute it then just take the car back and fix it on your own time and give the OP a car that works.
Probably been hacked and the hacker is just deleting evidence of the hack. /Good Wife
BertBert said:
However, whether the dealer can reproduce the fault or not does not affect it's presence. If there is no dispute about the fact the fault exists, then if the dealer cannot fix it (for whatever reason), that should be the dealer's problem not the OP's.
Bert
True. However, until the dealer can reproduce the fault, how can they fix it? If it doesn't happen for them, they change a few bits and it still doesn't happen, does that mean it's fixed or that they just can't reproduce it?Bert
Tricky one for both sides really... After all, if they return it as fixed after a few parts changed and it does still occur, that's also not great customer service from the OP's perspective.
My list of faults, in order of severity/seriousness:
- Active cruise control acts as if it's working but occasionally will fail to recognise another car in front. Weather conditions are very 'normal' when this happens i.e. not bright, no glare, dry, etc. This is the most serious as it's a safety issue. I have this recorded as evidence.
- Active cruise control will disable in normal conditions (see above). This can be on the motorway @70mph, when this happens then that nature of the car causes it to effectively brake (regenerative braking). Imagine following in your Audi 2.0TDI S-Line and having the car in front start braking for no reason. Also a safety issue but less severe than above.
- Active cruise control won't enable despite pre-conditioning the car (heating it up in the morning), using rear screen heater to clear the front camera (heating element linked to rear screen) and having driven for a few miles before attempting to use it. This is pretty much the same as above, I've stopped and taken photos of the weather conditions at the time along with a view of the camera to show no condensation build up and clear weather (as the first issue).
The dealer can raise a Pumah (?) case with BMW Technical, who may well have come across this before and who should be able to tell them what to do.
Often the issue is the lack of ongoing communication between them both and they will normally try to change the cheapest bits first in an attempt to make the issue go away.
In my case, the bike was new in December and developed the fault within three weeks. Despite it being ongoing, they only raised a Pumah case in the March which didn't resolve it - and then they finally raised it again in December. They should have liaised over the whole period of the fault.
Keep pushing them.
Often the issue is the lack of ongoing communication between them both and they will normally try to change the cheapest bits first in an attempt to make the issue go away.
In my case, the bike was new in December and developed the fault within three weeks. Despite it being ongoing, they only raised a Pumah case in the March which didn't resolve it - and then they finally raised it again in December. They should have liaised over the whole period of the fault.
Keep pushing them.
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