Claim for rectifying garage's mistake
Discussion
Hi PH... looking for some advice on the situation below:
Last year a garage replaced the steering rack on my car (used rack, supplied by me). When it was replaced they supplied and fitted new tie rods & ends at the same time.
About 7 months later I noticed play in the o/s tie rod. The same garage agreed to replace the tie rod & end on that side FOC and blamed the failure on corrosion caused by water coming out of the steering rack (sounds odd?). I asked if they'd check the tracking but they said it wasn't necessary. After that repair the tie rod would hit the inside of the wheel at full lock on the side that was replaced (o/s). Unfortunately I didn't realise this until I'd driven back from the garage and parked up (the only time I normally use full lock).
I contacted the garage immediately but they couldn't offer an explanation for it and didn't offer any remedy. The garage is not local so I couldn't just go back in person and ask them to look at it.
I then found out that the track rod ends had been fitted to the wrong sides (opposite to original rack and parts catalogues). The way they were fitted meant there was less clearance to the inside of the wheel at full lock.
I pointed this out to the garage and asked them to rectify it FOC, but they said that the way they had fitted them was not detrimental in any way and would not do it FOC. They also said that my steering rack had play in it, which I doubted.
After a couple more e-mails they offered to fit a new rack & tie rods/ends if I paid for the steering rack. I replied asking which way round the track rod ends would be fitted and what the cost of them supplying a replacement rack would be. I also asked a number of times what they thought the cause of the problem was.
I didn't get a reply to the last e-mail or an explanation from them about what they thought the cause was.
As I'd lost faith in the garage and thought it wise to get a second opinion - I took the car to another garage who found that the tie rods/ends were different designs and specifications (M14 on the n/s and M16 on the o/s). The one that was replaced was the M16 one, which would obviously give less clearance to the wheel as well. The other garage also said they thought the track rod ends were fitted to the wrong sides and noticed that the n/s tie rod had play as well.
I purchased new correct tie rods/ends/boots myself and had them fitted at the garage that did the diagnosis and this has fixed the issue. It seems that the issue was caused by a combination of mis-matching parts being fitted, and track rod ends being fitted to the wrong sides. The failure of the n/s tie rod was caused by a hole in the boot which allowed water in (not from wear and tear, either present when fitted or caused by garage #1).
So the car is now fixed and I am after advice on how to claim from garage #1 and what their liability is likely to be (parts/labour/both?). It is obviously difficult to prove whether the failure of the inner tie rods was due to the rack or due to the garage that fitted it (possibly water in the boot already, damaged boot that I'd have expected them to spot or badly fitted boot). Either way, I can't really see a defence to fitting different design/specification parts and to the wrong sides.
I'd be interested to hear what liability PH thinks the garage has and what my next move should be.
I'll aim to keep this thread updated with progress.
Last year a garage replaced the steering rack on my car (used rack, supplied by me). When it was replaced they supplied and fitted new tie rods & ends at the same time.
About 7 months later I noticed play in the o/s tie rod. The same garage agreed to replace the tie rod & end on that side FOC and blamed the failure on corrosion caused by water coming out of the steering rack (sounds odd?). I asked if they'd check the tracking but they said it wasn't necessary. After that repair the tie rod would hit the inside of the wheel at full lock on the side that was replaced (o/s). Unfortunately I didn't realise this until I'd driven back from the garage and parked up (the only time I normally use full lock).
I contacted the garage immediately but they couldn't offer an explanation for it and didn't offer any remedy. The garage is not local so I couldn't just go back in person and ask them to look at it.
I then found out that the track rod ends had been fitted to the wrong sides (opposite to original rack and parts catalogues). The way they were fitted meant there was less clearance to the inside of the wheel at full lock.
I pointed this out to the garage and asked them to rectify it FOC, but they said that the way they had fitted them was not detrimental in any way and would not do it FOC. They also said that my steering rack had play in it, which I doubted.
After a couple more e-mails they offered to fit a new rack & tie rods/ends if I paid for the steering rack. I replied asking which way round the track rod ends would be fitted and what the cost of them supplying a replacement rack would be. I also asked a number of times what they thought the cause of the problem was.
I didn't get a reply to the last e-mail or an explanation from them about what they thought the cause was.
As I'd lost faith in the garage and thought it wise to get a second opinion - I took the car to another garage who found that the tie rods/ends were different designs and specifications (M14 on the n/s and M16 on the o/s). The one that was replaced was the M16 one, which would obviously give less clearance to the wheel as well. The other garage also said they thought the track rod ends were fitted to the wrong sides and noticed that the n/s tie rod had play as well.
I purchased new correct tie rods/ends/boots myself and had them fitted at the garage that did the diagnosis and this has fixed the issue. It seems that the issue was caused by a combination of mis-matching parts being fitted, and track rod ends being fitted to the wrong sides. The failure of the n/s tie rod was caused by a hole in the boot which allowed water in (not from wear and tear, either present when fitted or caused by garage #1).
So the car is now fixed and I am after advice on how to claim from garage #1 and what their liability is likely to be (parts/labour/both?). It is obviously difficult to prove whether the failure of the inner tie rods was due to the rack or due to the garage that fitted it (possibly water in the boot already, damaged boot that I'd have expected them to spot or badly fitted boot). Either way, I can't really see a defence to fitting different design/specification parts and to the wrong sides.
I'd be interested to hear what liability PH thinks the garage has and what my next move should be.
I'll aim to keep this thread updated with progress.
a statement from the rectifying garage and a small claims case will likely be your only option.
Supplying garage will likely say you took the car elsewhere to be rectified without giving them sufficient opportunity. I'd say you'll be lucky to get parts cost back if you didn't get auth from the first garage.
My dilemma...
M14/M16 are diameter sizes and would not refer to the length of the tie rod. If the threads were the wrong size the tie rods would not have screwed on. This is maybe a completely incorrect end or 2 correct ends from different non-OEM manufacturers that just happen to have a different sized adjustment head.
Did garage 1 approve use of garage 2 or did you have them rectify the works before seeking authorisation?
Did garage 2 keep a log of the works with photos of the issues and incorrectly fitted parts?
Did garage 2 keep the parts to check they are correct?
Supplying garage will likely say you took the car elsewhere to be rectified without giving them sufficient opportunity. I'd say you'll be lucky to get parts cost back if you didn't get auth from the first garage.
My dilemma...
M14/M16 are diameter sizes and would not refer to the length of the tie rod. If the threads were the wrong size the tie rods would not have screwed on. This is maybe a completely incorrect end or 2 correct ends from different non-OEM manufacturers that just happen to have a different sized adjustment head.
Did garage 1 approve use of garage 2 or did you have them rectify the works before seeking authorisation?
Did garage 2 keep a log of the works with photos of the issues and incorrectly fitted parts?
Did garage 2 keep the parts to check they are correct?
Oh dear - I think you are in for a bit of an uphill struggle with this one. Even if you had independent expert opinion and proof that you had given the first garage an opportunity to rectify their mistake, getting them to refund for the work of another garage will prove very difficult. How much time and money are you prepared to invest in your fight? Your best hope is that you are offered something by way of "good will". Good luck!
Thanks for the replies.
I forgot to mention before, but garage #2 said that my steering rack was fine and does not have play in it - contrary to what garage #1 claimed. I also can't detect any play in the rack and nothing was mentioned on the last MOT.
As for the other questions:
1. No, I had no further comms with garage 1 before having garage 2 do the repair.
2. Yes, have photos of the tie rod hitting the inside of the wheel, of the incorrectly fitted rod ends, of the old rack with correctly fitted rod ends and of the different design/spec tie rods/ends that have now been removed.
3. Not sure what you mean. The new tie rods are M14 (cheaper than the M16 ones). The M16 one is from a different car of the same platform and has a similar length.
Reasons for not going back to garage #1 were:
They refused to repair it FOC
Loss of faith in their competence due to fitment of mis-matching parts to incorrect sides, previous over-filling of the power steering fluid (rectified myself), not re-doing the alignment after replacing worn tie rod/end (it was out as it caused uneven tyre wear, hardly surprising as it was a different spec part!). They market themselves as a specialist in this make of car.
I forgot to mention before, but garage #2 said that my steering rack was fine and does not have play in it - contrary to what garage #1 claimed. I also can't detect any play in the rack and nothing was mentioned on the last MOT.
andburg said:
a statement from the rectifying garage and a small claims case will likely be your only option.
Supplying garage will likely say you took the car elsewhere to be rectified without giving them sufficient opportunity. I'd say you'll be lucky to get parts cost back if you didn't get auth from the first garage.
My dilemma...
M14/M16 are diameter sizes and would not refer to the length of the tie rod. If the threads were the wrong size the tie rods would not have screwed on. This is maybe a completely incorrect end or 2 correct ends from different non-OEM manufacturers that just happen to have a different sized adjustment head.
Did garage 1 approve use of garage 2 or did you have them rectify the works before seeking authorisation?
Did garage 2 keep a log of the works with photos of the issues and incorrectly fitted parts?
Did garage 2 keep the parts to check they are correct?
The tie rods/end were supplied as complete assemblies. When the o/s tie rod failed, that M14 tie rod/end was replaced with an M16 rod/end (and one of lesser quality than the original). Hopefully that clarifies that!Supplying garage will likely say you took the car elsewhere to be rectified without giving them sufficient opportunity. I'd say you'll be lucky to get parts cost back if you didn't get auth from the first garage.
My dilemma...
M14/M16 are diameter sizes and would not refer to the length of the tie rod. If the threads were the wrong size the tie rods would not have screwed on. This is maybe a completely incorrect end or 2 correct ends from different non-OEM manufacturers that just happen to have a different sized adjustment head.
Did garage 1 approve use of garage 2 or did you have them rectify the works before seeking authorisation?
Did garage 2 keep a log of the works with photos of the issues and incorrectly fitted parts?
Did garage 2 keep the parts to check they are correct?
As for the other questions:
1. No, I had no further comms with garage 1 before having garage 2 do the repair.
2. Yes, have photos of the tie rod hitting the inside of the wheel, of the incorrectly fitted rod ends, of the old rack with correctly fitted rod ends and of the different design/spec tie rods/ends that have now been removed.
3. Not sure what you mean. The new tie rods are M14 (cheaper than the M16 ones). The M16 one is from a different car of the same platform and has a similar length.
Reasons for not going back to garage #1 were:
They refused to repair it FOC
Loss of faith in their competence due to fitment of mis-matching parts to incorrect sides, previous over-filling of the power steering fluid (rectified myself), not re-doing the alignment after replacing worn tie rod/end (it was out as it caused uneven tyre wear, hardly surprising as it was a different spec part!). They market themselves as a specialist in this make of car.
POORCARDEALER said:
You wont be able to prove that the track rod ends inspected by the garage who told you they were differing sizes were the actual ones fitted by the original garage.
Feel for your situation but might be hard to prove in court.
Have pictures of them when they were still fitted to the car, and again when they were removed. Also if they were the same size/design, the TRE's would've just been swapped over rather than needing to be replaced with matching parts. Garage #2 have also written this on the invoice for the diagnosis. Proof enough, I think!Feel for your situation but might be hard to prove in court.
Edit: misunderstood you. I see what you mean, I have photos showing the rods/ends 3 days after the issue started when I was trying to diagnose it myself. At the time I didn't realise they were different design/spec as it's not really something you'd notice unless they were both right in front of you. I think garage #1 would be really clutching at straws if they try and suggest I'm fibbing about them fitting different design/spec parts.
Edited by petrolbloke on Thursday 7th April 16:01
andburg said:
I'd say you'll be lucky to get parts cost back if you didn't get auth from the first garage.
Beggarall said:
Oh dear - I think you are in for a bit of an uphill struggle with this one. Even if you had independent expert opinion and proof that you had given the first garage an opportunity to rectify their mistake, getting them to refund for the work of another garage will prove very difficult.
Not necessarily. It depends on what, if anything, is written into garage #1's t&cs and which judge is hearing the case.http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/court-rejec...
I'd get all the info from the other garages in writing, including a small statement as to why fitting the wrong track rod ends was putting your life in danger. I'd then go back to the original garage with this dossier and a letter asking/advising them to reconsider their position regarding a full refund, before the case goes to court.
Old Merc said:
What a mess,I think you are on a looser because it all started with the garage fitting YOUR 2ND HAND rack.They will just say that the confusion with track rods is down to your rack,different spec etc etc.
If everything was O/E new parts they would not have a leg to stand on.
Basically what I was going to say. Move on with your life, chalk it up to experience. Supplying your own parts, especially second hand ones, arms the garage with all kinds of excuses.If everything was O/E new parts they would not have a leg to stand on.
Old Merc said:
I`m surprised the garage took the job on in the first place.Fitting second hand stuff supplied by a customer is normally a no no.
We will fit second hand stuff no problems, if it doesn't work you'll be paying us to take it off and replace it again though ! We had one poor sap who paid us to replace his engine 3 times due to the second hand ones having various internal faults that weren't apparent until fitted and running (he did get 50% discount the third time !)Sounds like shoddy work from the original place OP, proving it all and getting some recompense is another matter though
vsonix said:
ouch I missed the second hand rack bit. Damn. In that case there aren't really any legs to stand on.
The rack may have been s/h but the tie rods and ends were not.petrolbloke said:
When it was replaced they supplied and fitted new tie rods & ends at the same time.
If the rack was the correct one for the car then a competent garage should know which rods & ends they ought to be fitting to it.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff