How much fuel can you buy in portable containers?
Discussion
Being a boat owner, I frequently take the portable 25litre fuel tanks off the boat to the filling station to top up.
A couple of weeks ago I was challenged whilst filling them up up by a member of staff and told that I couldn't do this " Cos it's illegal innit" Apparently, I'm only allowed to fill either two 5 litre plastic fuel cans or one 10 litre metal fuel tank. "Because of terrorists"
Whilst filling stations have a right to impose whatever restrictions of sale they wish, I'm struggling with the legal argument here.
Legislation governing the carriage of dangerous goods (including flammable liquids) by road nationally and throughout Europe, and adopted by 46 countries worldwide, is based on the ADR.
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publi...
Transporting fuel for my boat would seem to fall within the exemptions of ADR as outlined below.
5.1 ADR exemptions (ADR 1.1.3)
The following activities are exempt and therefore not subject to the
ADR or national
regulations:
(a) The carriage of dangerous goods by private individuals where the goods in
question are packaged for retail sale and are intended for personal or domestic
use, leisure or sporting activities. When carrying flammable liquids in refillable
receptacles, the total quantity cannot exceed 60 litres per receptacle or 240 litres
per transport unit;
Have I misunderstood this, or is there some other legislation of which I am unaware that would prohibit me from filling my boat fuel tanks?
A couple of weeks ago I was challenged whilst filling them up up by a member of staff and told that I couldn't do this " Cos it's illegal innit" Apparently, I'm only allowed to fill either two 5 litre plastic fuel cans or one 10 litre metal fuel tank. "Because of terrorists"
Whilst filling stations have a right to impose whatever restrictions of sale they wish, I'm struggling with the legal argument here.
Legislation governing the carriage of dangerous goods (including flammable liquids) by road nationally and throughout Europe, and adopted by 46 countries worldwide, is based on the ADR.
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publi...
Transporting fuel for my boat would seem to fall within the exemptions of ADR as outlined below.
5.1 ADR exemptions (ADR 1.1.3)
The following activities are exempt and therefore not subject to the
ADR or national
regulations:
(a) The carriage of dangerous goods by private individuals where the goods in
question are packaged for retail sale and are intended for personal or domestic
use, leisure or sporting activities. When carrying flammable liquids in refillable
receptacles, the total quantity cannot exceed 60 litres per receptacle or 240 litres
per transport unit;
Have I misunderstood this, or is there some other legislation of which I am unaware that would prohibit me from filling my boat fuel tanks?
Sparky, i thought that was the limit as well. however i was unaware of those regs. Next time some muppet tells you that, counter him by aying you are allowe to do it as if he stops you, tyou will report him under the Discriminations Act 2016. that should stop him just enough to get filled up.OR call his bluff and call a cop!! Not that he would know!!!!!, but he just might
I regularly fill 2x 25l drums of V power for my occasional weekend toy as the nearest Shell from me is around 18 miles away. I throw two drums in the back of my van and if I pass a Shell during the week I grab some.
The daft thing is no one has ever raised an eyebrow as to why I'm paying for 50L's unleaded in a clattery diesel van
The daft thing is no one has ever raised an eyebrow as to why I'm paying for 50L's unleaded in a clattery diesel van
fastbikes76 said:
I regularly fill 2x 25l drums of V power for my occasional weekend toy as the nearest Shell from me is around 18 miles away. I throw two drums in the back of my van and if I pass a Shell during the week I grab some.
The daft thing is no one has ever raised an eyebrow as to why I'm paying for 50L's unleaded in a clattery diesel van
They probably assume you're a gardener.The daft thing is no one has ever raised an eyebrow as to why I'm paying for 50L's unleaded in a clattery diesel van
TooMany2cvs said:
sparkythecat said:
Have I misunderstood this, or is there some other legislation of which I am unaware that would prohibit me from filling my boat fuel tanks?
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htmsparkythecat said:
Being a boat owner, I frequently take the portable 25litre fuel tanks off the boat to the filling station to top up.
A couple of weeks ago I was challenged whilst filling them up up by a member of staff and told that I couldn't do this " Cos it's illegal innit" Apparently, I'm only allowed to fill either two 5 litre plastic fuel cans or one 10 litre metal fuel tank. "Because of terrorists"
Whilst filling stations have a right to impose whatever restrictions of sale they wish, I'm struggling with the legal argument here.
You could always complain to whoever manages the place that you don't feel the staff have been appropriately trained as required by DSEARA couple of weeks ago I was challenged whilst filling them up up by a member of staff and told that I couldn't do this " Cos it's illegal innit" Apparently, I'm only allowed to fill either two 5 litre plastic fuel cans or one 10 litre metal fuel tank. "Because of terrorists"
Whilst filling stations have a right to impose whatever restrictions of sale they wish, I'm struggling with the legal argument here.
In defence of the poorly trained person it *used* to be 5 litres and 10 litres.
It should be plastic cans up to 10l, metal ones to 20l and demountable tanks from things like boats up to 30l. Things like numbers of cans you're allowed to fill are a health and safety thing that is supposed to be determined based on actually doing a risk assessment specific to the site. The guidance linked from HSE's website says
"16) A limit of two containers is generally accepted as providing a reasonable
level of safety on the forecourt and also allows for compliance with the
majority of storage conditions applicable to petrol supplied to the general
public for their private/domestic use. This does not mean that greater
numbers of containers cannot be legally filled but it will be for you to decide
on the appropriate numbers based on a risk assessment and a review of
your hazardous area classification; as is required of you by the Dangerous
Substances & Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 (DSEAR)."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/owner-petro...
I work in a supermarket petrol station, and we enforce the rules that zombeh stated above. Plenty of customers with boat tanks and generators. No problem.
We have one customer (local theme park) with a risk assessment. They can fill as many 20l metal cans as they can fit in their trailer.
Had a customer once who wanted to fill a disposible plastic cup (from a vending machine) with petrol so that they could "prime their fuel pump". Quite a few have tried to fill pop bottles and chemical drums.
We have one customer (local theme park) with a risk assessment. They can fill as many 20l metal cans as they can fit in their trailer.
Had a customer once who wanted to fill a disposible plastic cup (from a vending machine) with petrol so that they could "prime their fuel pump". Quite a few have tried to fill pop bottles and chemical drums.
I often fill up one or two Jerry cans when I do track days, so I don't have to leave the track to top up at Lunchtime, or on the way home, if a long journey. Never had a problem (yet).
Lots of people have indicated the regulation, I would personally suggest printing it straight from the website, sticking it in an envelope and keeping it the glovebox(es) of your car(s).
Its simple then - to show them the specific regulations if/when you are challenged again at that garage.
Lots of people have indicated the regulation, I would personally suggest printing it straight from the website, sticking it in an envelope and keeping it the glovebox(es) of your car(s).
Its simple then - to show them the specific regulations if/when you are challenged again at that garage.
Get the same problem in Helston at both Sainsbury & Tesco. No problem with 2 containers but if I try to do a 3rd they shut the pump down & witter over the PA system.
I have 4 containers on the boat, 2x25litre Quicksilvers & 2 normal 5 litre ones - one of the latter as pre-mix for the auxiliary outboard. I fill them all on arrival as the nearest garage to the destination is more expensive. Doesn't matter what combination I fill them in, once I've done 2 that's it.
'Company policy' and 'H&S' are cited as the reasons.
Frankly I've got better things to do than argue the toss when on holiday & as the two are less than a mile apart & on the same side of Helston I do the 2 small ones at Tesco & the two big ones at Sainsbury (for the Nectar points
) so everybody's happy(ish).
I have 4 containers on the boat, 2x25litre Quicksilvers & 2 normal 5 litre ones - one of the latter as pre-mix for the auxiliary outboard. I fill them all on arrival as the nearest garage to the destination is more expensive. Doesn't matter what combination I fill them in, once I've done 2 that's it.
'Company policy' and 'H&S' are cited as the reasons.
Frankly I've got better things to do than argue the toss when on holiday & as the two are less than a mile apart & on the same side of Helston I do the 2 small ones at Tesco & the two big ones at Sainsbury (for the Nectar points
) so everybody's happy(ish).Edited by paintman on Wednesday 13th April 08:45
zombeh said:
"16) A limit of two containers is generally accepted as providing a reasonable
level of safety on the forecourt and also allows for compliance with the
majority of storage conditions applicable to petrol supplied to the general
public for their private/domestic use. This does not mean that greater
numbers of containers cannot be legally filled but it will be for you to decide
on the appropriate numbers based on a risk assessment and a review of
your hazardous area classification; as is required of you by the Dangerous
Substances & Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 (DSEAR)."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/owner-petro...
Thanks for that zombeh. That covers it.level of safety on the forecourt and also allows for compliance with the
majority of storage conditions applicable to petrol supplied to the general
public for their private/domestic use. This does not mean that greater
numbers of containers cannot be legally filled but it will be for you to decide
on the appropriate numbers based on a risk assessment and a review of
your hazardous area classification; as is required of you by the Dangerous
Substances & Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 (DSEAR)."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/owner-petro...
I'll print them off and lubricate them ready for future use
Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 13th April 16:11
paintman said:
Get the same problem in Helston at both Sainsbury & Tesco. No problem with 2 containers but if I try to do a 3rd they shut the pump down & witter over the PA system.
I have 4 containers on the boat, 2x25litre Quicksilvers & 2 normal 5 litre ones - one of the latter as pre-mix for the auxiliary outboard. I fill them all on arrival as the nearest garage to the destination is more expensive. Doesn't matter what combination I fill them in, once I've done 2 that's it.
'Company policy' and 'H&S' are cited as the reasons.
Frankly I've got better things to do than argue the toss when on holiday & as the two are less than a mile apart & on the same side of Helston I do the 2 small ones at Tesco & the two big ones at Sainsbury (for the Nectar points) so everybody's happy(ish).
The key is to park at a strategic pump where you are blocked from view and fill your tanks that way, that's what I've done for the boat for years and have never had a problem.I have 4 containers on the boat, 2x25litre Quicksilvers & 2 normal 5 litre ones - one of the latter as pre-mix for the auxiliary outboard. I fill them all on arrival as the nearest garage to the destination is more expensive. Doesn't matter what combination I fill them in, once I've done 2 that's it.
'Company policy' and 'H&S' are cited as the reasons.
Frankly I've got better things to do than argue the toss when on holiday & as the two are less than a mile apart & on the same side of Helston I do the 2 small ones at Tesco & the two big ones at Sainsbury (for the Nectar points
) so everybody's happy(ish).Edited by paintman on Wednesday 13th April 08:45
Corpulent Tosser said:
Interesting thread, I always thought 5l in a plastic container and 10l in a metal container was the limit, I always put my 20l jerrycan at the back of the car out of sight of the kiosk when filling it.
I think it changed when the Petroleum (Consolidation) Regulations 2014 came into force in October 2014Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff