Power of Attorney for finances
Discussion
Quick question for the legal eagles.
Myself, Dad and Mum have LPA for my gran for her finances and health. At the moment she's in a home and we are trying to organise full time care for her. My Dad lives in Dubai and wants to come home to help sort this out, but he's asked me if I can transfer money from my gran to him to cover the airfares. I don't think this is valid under the LPA, but he says it is a legitimate expense because he's coming home to sort out her affairs.
My wife and I think its not correct because its not my grans fault that my Dad lives abroad.
Whats the legal position here?
Myself, Dad and Mum have LPA for my gran for her finances and health. At the moment she's in a home and we are trying to organise full time care for her. My Dad lives in Dubai and wants to come home to help sort this out, but he's asked me if I can transfer money from my gran to him to cover the airfares. I don't think this is valid under the LPA, but he says it is a legitimate expense because he's coming home to sort out her affairs.
My wife and I think its not correct because its not my grans fault that my Dad lives abroad.
Whats the legal position here?
I am not a lawyer, but the answer seems to be here:
https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/p...
I would suggest that the test is whether the journey is strictly necessary and (possibly) is wholly or mainly to discharge the duties as an attorney. Does he need to be physically present in the UK? Is the "help" in sorting matters out commensurate with the expense? Would a court consider that it was in the best interests of your Gran to pay the airfare?
You could always try asking the Office of the Public Guardian (0300 456 0300) before deciding whether you need professional legal advice.
https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/p...
I would suggest that the test is whether the journey is strictly necessary and (possibly) is wholly or mainly to discharge the duties as an attorney. Does he need to be physically present in the UK? Is the "help" in sorting matters out commensurate with the expense? Would a court consider that it was in the best interests of your Gran to pay the airfare?
You could always try asking the Office of the Public Guardian (0300 456 0300) before deciding whether you need professional legal advice.
barian said:
I am not a lawyer, but the answer seems to be here:
https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/p...
I would suggest that the test is whether the journey is strictly necessary and (possibly) is wholly or mainly to discharge the duties as an attorney. Does he need to be physically present in the UK? Is the "help" in sorting matters out commensurate with the expense? Would a court consider that it was in the best interests of your Gran to pay the airfare?
You could always try asking the Office of the Public Guardian (0300 456 0300) before deciding whether you need professional legal advice.
Hi, yes I had a look at that and its a bit ambiguous hence the question. I'm on hold with them now to try and get a better answer. The reason for coming to the UK is mainly to find a residential home for my gran. I am not going to be available as I'll be dealing with a newborn baby and can't commit the time. My parents are coming to deal with this while I can't.https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/p...
I would suggest that the test is whether the journey is strictly necessary and (possibly) is wholly or mainly to discharge the duties as an attorney. Does he need to be physically present in the UK? Is the "help" in sorting matters out commensurate with the expense? Would a court consider that it was in the best interests of your Gran to pay the airfare?
You could always try asking the Office of the Public Guardian (0300 456 0300) before deciding whether you need professional legal advice.
Lets see what they say.
Jim1556 said:
If your dad lives and works in Dubai, he can afford the few hundred quid airfare himself!
Just checked - Dubai to Heathrow is less than £400! Tight git!
Thats not helpful as you don't know our circumstances.Just checked - Dubai to Heathrow is less than £400! Tight git!
Quote: " The reason for coming to the UK is mainly to find a residential home for my gran. I am not going to be available as I'll be dealing with a newborn baby and can't commit the time. My parents are coming to deal with this while I can't. "
Well if you can't deal with the issue and it cannot be delayed or handled any other way more economically, then it might be reasonable to pay the costs of one of the other attorneys returning. Whether both need to come is another matter.
Well if you can't deal with the issue and it cannot be delayed or handled any other way more economically, then it might be reasonable to pay the costs of one of the other attorneys returning. Whether both need to come is another matter.
Finding a care home for a relative is not something that can be done with a few phone calls.
If that is his primary reason for returning to the UK and there isn't anyone else here who can do it on his behalf then it is completely reasonable his expenses for the trip are paid.
You haven't indicated whether you, your dad and your mum have been appointed jointly or jointly and severally. This may have a bearing of course.
Managing someone's affairs as an attorney and being a caring relative looking after a loved often leads to emotional conflicts and feelings of guilt, but sometimes you have to look at the options and weigh up what is the fairest way to do something for all concerned.
Carers often make too many sacrifices and end up in a worse state than the ones they are caring for.
Having said that, there are also plenty of free-loaders out there who want to abuse the system, but based on what the OP has said, this doesn't sound like that to me.
If that is his primary reason for returning to the UK and there isn't anyone else here who can do it on his behalf then it is completely reasonable his expenses for the trip are paid.
You haven't indicated whether you, your dad and your mum have been appointed jointly or jointly and severally. This may have a bearing of course.
Managing someone's affairs as an attorney and being a caring relative looking after a loved often leads to emotional conflicts and feelings of guilt, but sometimes you have to look at the options and weigh up what is the fairest way to do something for all concerned.
Carers often make too many sacrifices and end up in a worse state than the ones they are caring for.
Having said that, there are also plenty of free-loaders out there who want to abuse the system, but based on what the OP has said, this doesn't sound like that to me.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 18th April 16:42
FurtiveFreddy said:
Finding a care home for a relative is not something that can be done with a few phone calls.
If that is his primary reason for returning to the UK and there isn't anyone else here who can do it on his behalf then it is completely reasonable his expenses for the trip are paid.
You haven't indicated whether you, your dad and your mum have been appointed jointly or jointly and severally. This may have a bearing of course.
Managing someone's affairs as an attorney and being a caring relative looking after a loved often leads to emotional conflicts and feelings of guilt, but sometimes you have to look at the options and weigh up what is the fairest way to do something for all concerned.
Carers often make too many sacrifices and end up in a worse state than the ones they are caring for.
Having said that, there are also plenty of free-loaders out there who want to abuse the system, but based on what the OP has said, this doesn't sound like that to me.
Hi, the LPAs jointly and severally. The OPG have said its not a reasonable expense, so we'll have to arrange something else. At least I know the guidelines now. I've unofficially looked after my gran's estate for years so this isn't a big difference for me now. I just didn't want to do something that could get me prosecuted.If that is his primary reason for returning to the UK and there isn't anyone else here who can do it on his behalf then it is completely reasonable his expenses for the trip are paid.
You haven't indicated whether you, your dad and your mum have been appointed jointly or jointly and severally. This may have a bearing of course.
Managing someone's affairs as an attorney and being a caring relative looking after a loved often leads to emotional conflicts and feelings of guilt, but sometimes you have to look at the options and weigh up what is the fairest way to do something for all concerned.
Carers often make too many sacrifices and end up in a worse state than the ones they are caring for.
Having said that, there are also plenty of free-loaders out there who want to abuse the system, but based on what the OP has said, this doesn't sound like that to me.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 18th April 16:42
AClownsPocket said:
Hi, the LPAs jointly and severally. The OPG have said its not a reasonable expense, so we'll have to arrange something else. At least I know the guidelines now. I've unofficially looked after my gran's estate for years so this isn't a big difference for me now. I just didn't want to do something that could get me prosecuted.
Interesting statement by the OPG as they state travel expenses are claimable. FurtiveFreddy said:
Interesting statement by the OPG as they state travel expenses are claimable.
Mmm. They say reasonable would be taking my gran shopping, running errands on her behalf etc. This isn't. We can fill forms in apparently to request the money, again there is no guarantee. We'll figure it out 
I think the whole point of having an LPA is being missed here. It is not to cover your expenses for helping with granny, it is to act on her behalf in financial and health matters taking account of what is in her best interests and what conforms to what she would have done had she been in full possession of her faculties. I have assumed she suffers from some kind of mental incapacity which prevents her from making her own reasonable and rational decisions - however, if she is of sound mind it is a simple a matter to ask her! In your case the test is whether you think she would have readily contributed to the costs of your father's travel - if not, it is inappropriate to use LPA to take her money to reimburse him - which was the view of the OPG. On the other hand if she regularly helped to cover the costs of travel for people to visit or help her then it would be in keeping with how she would have acted and therefore using the LPA to reimburse payments is reasonable. You, collectively as a family, are the only ones who can answer this. It sounds like you are heading for some family disagreement here and it would be a good idea to try to resolve matters before something else happens. Money is a great divider in families.
Beggarall said:
I think the whole point of having an LPA is being missed here. It is not to cover your expenses for helping with granny, it is to act on her behalf in financial and health matters taking account of what is in her best interests and what conforms to what she would have done had she been in full possession of her faculties.
This - well said.I understand what the LPA is, I've been harping on for years for her to get one as I was unofficially acting as her attorney anyway. I don't expect to be reimbursed for what I do, she's my gran.
The guidelines are a little ambiguous surrounding travel expenses. Needless to say, its now resolved to my satisfaction, so onwards and upwards.
The guidelines are a little ambiguous surrounding travel expenses. Needless to say, its now resolved to my satisfaction, so onwards and upwards.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff