V5c / Log book help.

[JMDVAN]

Hi, I need some help advice on obtaining a V5c for my car.

I bought a damaged Escort Cosworth back in 2011 very low mileage excellent condition. it was to be my own car a keeper.

My situation is this. The car had being to in the garage for work and the mechanics did the test drive and damaged it (inner wing).

The garage settled with the original owner. As it was cheaper than going through the insurance process. I bought the
car from the garage.

Now it turns out that the car was insurance assessed and the insurance put a category B marker on it.
Which would not relay be a problem up until October last year. But the rules have since changed.
Also if it did not go through the insurance company does anyone know can they assign a marker to it?

I bought the car as the damaged condition of the rest of it was perfect near concourse. I had it professionally repaired in 2011
by a top end body shop. So have quite a bit of money in it. I would have put the car on the road then but my health took a turn for the worse.

I was laid up and went through multiple operations over the past couple of years and had no real interest in the car at all.
I now have renewed enthusiasm an want to get the car up and road legal. Unfortunately. As the DVLA have change their rules at the end of 2015 thay will not issue a V5c.

Could any one offer advise on how to proceed with the DVLA in order to obtain a V5c or could steer me in the direction of someone who could help?
As I now have a car I have invested a lot into. Had professionally repaired and cant use.

[TooMany2cvs]

JMDVAN said:

Hi, I need some help advice on obtaining a V5c for my car.

I bought a damaged Escort Cosworth back in 2011 very low mileage excellent condition. it was to be my own car a keeper.

My situation is this. The car had being to in the garage for work and the mechanics did the test drive and damaged it (inner wing).

The garage settled with the original owner. As it was cheaper than going through the insurance process. I bought the
car from the garage.

Now it turns out that the car was insurance assessed and the insurance put a category B marker on it.
Which would not relay be a problem up until October last year. But the rules have since changed.
Also if it did not go through the insurance company does anyone know can they assign a marker to it?

I bought the car as the damaged condition of the rest of it was perfect near concourse. I had it professionally repaired in 2011
by a top end body shop. So have quite a bit of money in it. I would have put the car on the road then but my health took a turn for the worse.

I was laid up and went through multiple operations over the past couple of years and had no real interest in the car at all.
I now have renewed enthusiasm an want to get the car up and road legal. Unfortunately. As the DVLA have change their rules at the end of 2015 thay will not issue a V5c.

Could any one offer advise on how to proceed with the DVLA in order to obtain a V5c or could steer me in the direction of someone who could help?
As I now have a car I have invested a lot into. Had professionally repaired and cant use.

The garage stuffed an Escort Cos sufficiently hard to be a CatB - structurally damaged beyond repair - and didn't go through insurance? I doubt that very much, for a start. It might not have gone through the owner's insurance, but it would certainly have gone through the garage's, and they're the ones who've written it off.

The October 2015 changes with the removal of VIC did include not issuing new V5Cs to CatA and CatB cars - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukia/2015/274/pdfs/u... - page 5 - so it's not just DVLA say no, but the law says no.

I suspect your only bet is to get it IVAd, a new VIN issued, and on a Q plate. Or export it.

Even if you do get a new V5C for it, you're going to find insurers firmly waving barge-poles at it.

[POORCARDEALER]

Cat B, shouldnt be on the road should it, thought they were break only??

[TooMany2cvs]

POORCARDEALER said:

Cat B, shouldnt be on the road should it, thought they were break only??

Not law, though, just an insurance industry agreement.

[POORCARDEALER]

TooMany2cvs said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Cat B, shouldnt be on the road should it, thought they were break only??

Not law, though, just an insurance industry agreement.

Cheers, wasnt aware of that

[elanfan]

I doubt you will get anywhere with this but I think the only recourse you have is to go back to the insurers that put the marker on the car. IF you can get their Motor Engineer to come out (again) and reinspect the car there's a small chance you might get them to change it to a Cat C. Was involved in a situation with some similarities and the Motor Engineer would not change his mind. Also suspect after 5 years the. Insurers may not have any records now.

Seems the garage misrepresented the car to you might have some recourse against them but timing is not on your side.

[Gallen]

TooMany2cvs said:

The garage stuffed an Escort Cos sufficiently hard to be a CatB - structurally damaged beyond repair.....

Categorisation is nothing to do with the level of damage.

A few examples of Cat B's currently offered for sale:

http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20785856?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20980776?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/14847306?searchId=8...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21198366?searchId=9...

Cat D's:
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21577476?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20884326?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21540376?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/38069025?searchId=1...

Then these Unrecorded vehicles which could be repaired and put back on the road, only to be sold as a clean and straight car:
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/22856876?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/23064396?searchId=8...

POORCARDEALER said:

Cat B, shouldnt be on the road should it, thought they were break only??

In sentiment, yes. But I can tell you there are a huge amount of Cat B cars on the road. One I remember a long time ago was a Cat B, then a Cat C!

All this is an agreement under terms in which they are sold, by agents working under the ABI guidelines (Assosciation of British Insurers)
- In the same way, Tescos could make you agree not to eat Heinz beans once you've bought them if you're under 5 feet tall.

Essentially you have to have a waste disposal license to purchase a Cat B vehicle from an Salvage agent operating within ABI guidelines.

- However as mentioned by OP, the DVLA are now seemingly signing up to this "scam" by no longer issuing log books for Cat B's.


The entire scheme is ridiculous, random and unfair.

G.

[TooMany2cvs]

Gallen said:

TooMany2cvs said:

The garage stuffed an Escort Cos sufficiently hard to be a CatB - structurally damaged beyond repair.....

Categorisation is nothing to do with the level of damage.

So what is it?

Gallen said:

A few examples of Cat B's currently offered for sale:

http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20785856?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20980776?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/14847306?searchId=8...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21198366?searchId=9...

We'll ignore the farm implement, shall we? I don't have the first clue about ploughs, and I'm sure you don't either.
So that's two flood-damaged, and a vandalised Lexus. Flood damage, on a modern electronic-mobile, is an easy one. No way would they EVER be right again. Which leaves the Lexus - and that's the only one that really appears odd. Looks like a simple kick-it-straight, C or D depending on value (£850, so C without a doubt). But... I might be wrong here, but look at the front interior pic, specifically at the driver's seat... Could we call that, umm, a biohazard? What else are we not seeing...? Underside damage?

Gallen said:

Cat D's:
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21577476?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/20884326?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/21540376?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/38069025?searchId=1...

All of them have repair estimates below the pre-accident value of the vehicle, by definition. The only one with a repair figure given is the Merc - £30k repair against £43k value. The Volvo looks bad, but get the wing and bonnet off, and I'll bet the structure's untouched.

Gallen said:

Then these Unrecorded vehicles which could be repaired and put back on the road, only to be sold as a clean and straight car:
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/22856876?searchId=1...
http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/23064396?searchId=8...

Unrecorded. Not gone through insurance. Neither of them look particularly structural, though - they'd both be CatC, at a guess.

Gallen said:

The entire scheme is ridiculous, random and unfair.

I'm trying to care. And, frankly, failing.

[Gallen]

TooMany2cvs said:

I'm trying to care. And, frankly, failing.

LOL ..you do seem to care - quite a bit if I'm honest!

As for the farm implement, it illustrates the point nicely.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 10th May 18:11

[TooMany2cvs]

Gallen said:

As for the farm implement, it illustrates the point nicely.

Feel free to expand on that...?

[Mr2Mike]

TooMany2cvs said:

We'll ignore the farm implement, shall we? I don't have the first clue about ploughs, and I'm sure you don't either.
So that's two flood-damaged, and a vandalised Lexus. Flood damage, on a modern electronic-mobile, is an easy one. No way would they EVER be right again.

It does rather prove Gallens point that a car does not need to have suffered serious structural damage to be awarded a Cat B.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr2Mike said:

TooMany2cvs said:

So that's two flood-damaged, and a vandalised Lexus. Flood damage, on a modern electronic-mobile, is an easy one. No way would they EVER be right again.

It does rather prove Gallens point that a car does not need to have suffered serious structural damage to be awarded a Cat B.

I said that in relation to a collision-damaged car, which none of those examples are.

Cat B is a car that's too badly damaged to be repaired properly. If it's collision damage, it'll be structural. If it's flood, it's pretty-much a shoe-in. Biohazards are another good way to get the assessor just slamming the door (if it does) and ticking the B box.

The flowchart on p4 of this...
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Pub...

Can/should it be repaired? NO
Does it contain parts that can be resold? YES

ABI said:

Cat B
• Vehicles which should not be repaired
• Heavy damage, chassis bent
• Old, low value vehicles beyond any form of economic repair

That "can/should" question is flagged with this note...

ABI said:

See Engineer Technical Sub-committee Guidelines

I don't have those notes, and they don't seem to be online.

[Gallen]

TooMany2cvs said:

Feel free to expand on that...?

TooMany2cvs - must say your response is rather selective.

You suggested that a Cat B will have sustained serious chassis damage.
- When I responded that it's not based on damage then refer to your previous statement where you quite correctly pointed out categorisation as being financially related in respect to repair costs using the assesor's costing matrix and new parts.

Secondly, you're asking what else we're not seeing on the Lexus, but quickly reached an assumption that the the Volvo is quite unlikely to have any chassis damage (disregarding the A-Pillar and soft crumple zones on the latest Euro spec chassis legs. Regarding the Biohazard, the info will usually be in additional comments or the vehicle will usually carry a Biohazard cautionary sticker (so it's possible but unlikely).

Regarding the plough? Well - it's a plough.
(which incidentally cannot be returned back to the road).


G.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 10th May 19:06

[Mr2Mike]

TooMany2cvs said:

Cat B is a car that's too badly damaged to be repaired properly.

I've seen all that ABI junk many times before. Fact stands that not all Cat B write offs are structurally impaired and it's quite clearly a rather arbitrary judgement.

[reisskhan]

JMDVAN

Have you actually just tried applying for a log book via DVLA and see what happens what they say etc?

If that fails maybe as someone mentioned might hand to go through an IVA or see if it can be reclassified somehow

All the best

[sim16v]

Sell it through Copart and the Eastern Europeans will pay a fortune for it as they appear to re register them.

[imagineifyeswill]

These insurance categorisations are nonsense and allways have been> I have worked in the repair side of the motor trade for 41 years, 17 off which were spent in the breakdown/recovery business dealing with damaged vehicles and liasing with insurance companies and assessors, one of the insurance ,companies cant remember which would not allow anyone to retain the salvage and put a CAT B on every vehicle, one I remember in particular was an Astra needing 2 headlights and 1 tailight no other damage at all, the owner had the parts to repair it, write off CAT B. As for flood damage, the electronics on most modern vehicles are fairly well sealed against water ingress, it would really require a vehicle to be completely submerged to make it unrepairable, as for bio hazards Ive yet to see anything that couldnt be deep cleaned. Practically every flood damaged vehicle Ive picked up I started and drove onto the recovery truck, The problem being that once delivered to the approved bodyshop there then left lying for weeks before been looked at by an assessor by which time there black with mould. I can remember back in the eighties a Ford 4 wheel drive tractor only a year old getting stuck on a muddy beach with the tide coming in, the local agent had a fitte on the beach waiting as the tide went out, he immediately drained all the oils and fileed the engine gearbox and diffs with diesel before it was even winched off the beach, then doused all inside the cab with gallons of WD40, the only thing that needed replaced on that tractor was the instruments, it was automatically written off and the company who bought the salvage made a very tidy profit on that deal.