Lost at small claims court
Discussion
I was after some thoughts on where my claim at small claims court went wrong and why I might have lost.
I bought something from a website which was from a 3rd party seller. There were no details for this seller listed on the site, no details on the emailed invoice and no receipt in the box when it was delivered.
The item stopped working after 6 or so months. After exchanging many emails with the site I bought it from I was promised a replacement but that never arrived.
Eventually after no further communication I went down the small claims route. I filed the claim with the website which advertised the goods originally as they were the only company details I had and could get. Also they took payment from the credit card so I had paid them.
They replied to the court papers with the details of the 3rd party seller who is in the US. This was the first time I knew who I had bought it from.
The company I took the action against also have offices in other countries and according to them the offices abroad are responsible for their selling in this country.
At this stage I had to continue as I had already paid for the court action etc.
When I started all this I phoned them and asked for their address saying that I was taking them to court and they supplied me with their uk address which matched the details on their .co.uk website so thought this was all good.
Other 3rd party sellers on their site have full company details ie company name, address, vat number etc but not this one so I had to go for the main company.
If I had known the 3rd party were in the US I would not have bought it,but instead bought it from a UK seller.
So my points in court were that according to the distance selling regs company details have to be provided before, during and after sale but they were not. And if they had complied with the law I would not have bought it as they were in another country. So basically the item was missold.
And the reason I went for the companies UK address is that is the address they gave me when I phoned and that is one of the addresses on their website.
The company I took to court didnt turn up, but had legal representation in the form of a letter to the court.
It got turned down on both points.
I would like some input on where it went wrong and how to avoid similar in the future.
Thanks in advance
I bought something from a website which was from a 3rd party seller. There were no details for this seller listed on the site, no details on the emailed invoice and no receipt in the box when it was delivered.
The item stopped working after 6 or so months. After exchanging many emails with the site I bought it from I was promised a replacement but that never arrived.
Eventually after no further communication I went down the small claims route. I filed the claim with the website which advertised the goods originally as they were the only company details I had and could get. Also they took payment from the credit card so I had paid them.
They replied to the court papers with the details of the 3rd party seller who is in the US. This was the first time I knew who I had bought it from.
The company I took the action against also have offices in other countries and according to them the offices abroad are responsible for their selling in this country.
At this stage I had to continue as I had already paid for the court action etc.
When I started all this I phoned them and asked for their address saying that I was taking them to court and they supplied me with their uk address which matched the details on their .co.uk website so thought this was all good.
Other 3rd party sellers on their site have full company details ie company name, address, vat number etc but not this one so I had to go for the main company.
If I had known the 3rd party were in the US I would not have bought it,but instead bought it from a UK seller.
So my points in court were that according to the distance selling regs company details have to be provided before, during and after sale but they were not. And if they had complied with the law I would not have bought it as they were in another country. So basically the item was missold.
And the reason I went for the companies UK address is that is the address they gave me when I phoned and that is one of the addresses on their website.
The company I took to court didnt turn up, but had legal representation in the form of a letter to the court.
It got turned down on both points.
I would like some input on where it went wrong and how to avoid similar in the future.
Thanks in advance
I realise that but didnt know what else to do as I didnt have any more info on the 3rd party.
If I had of known where they were after buying but before court action I would not have bothered with it as it would be impossible with them being in the US.
Credit card company said nothing they could do as it was a 3rd party.
If I had of known where they were after buying but before court action I would not have bothered with it as it would be impossible with them being in the US.
Credit card company said nothing they could do as it was a 3rd party.
So lemme be sure I understand.
You bought something through a "marketplace"-type website, from an independent seller with no contact details.
The item was as described, and worked for six months, until it failed.
You found out that the independent seller was in the US.
Suing them was too much like hard work, so you sued the website's UK office - even though you didn't buy anything from them.
Your claim was thrown out.
Right?
Just to clarify - what sort of item are we talking about here? Are we talking about something that you'd reasonably expect to provide years of good service? Does it have any kind of manufacturer warranty? What sort of price (order of magnitude is fine)?
You bought something through a "marketplace"-type website, from an independent seller with no contact details.
The item was as described, and worked for six months, until it failed.
You found out that the independent seller was in the US.
Suing them was too much like hard work, so you sued the website's UK office - even though you didn't buy anything from them.
Your claim was thrown out.
Right?
Just to clarify - what sort of item are we talking about here? Are we talking about something that you'd reasonably expect to provide years of good service? Does it have any kind of manufacturer warranty? What sort of price (order of magnitude is fine)?
TooMany2cvs said:
So lemme be sure I understand.
You bought something through a "marketplace"-type website, from an independent seller with no contact details.
The item was as described, and worked for six months, until it failed.
You found out that the independent seller was in the US.
Suing them was too much like hard work, so you sued the website's UK office - even though you didn't buy anything from them.
Your claim was thrown out.
Right?
Just to clarify - what sort of item are we talking about here? Are we talking about something that you'd reasonably expect to provide years of good service? Does it have any kind of manufacturer warranty? What sort of price (order of magnitude is fine)?
I didnt know who the seller was or where they were till after I had started the court process as no one would tell me. The only way to go as far as I could see was to go for the website. My thinking was that they had taken my money, told me they were in the uk, failed to meet the DSR and miss sold the item. At the time it was all I could think of doing. A replacement hasd been promised and I was hoping this would then appear.You bought something through a "marketplace"-type website, from an independent seller with no contact details.
The item was as described, and worked for six months, until it failed.
You found out that the independent seller was in the US.
Suing them was too much like hard work, so you sued the website's UK office - even though you didn't buy anything from them.
Your claim was thrown out.
Right?
Just to clarify - what sort of item are we talking about here? Are we talking about something that you'd reasonably expect to provide years of good service? Does it have any kind of manufacturer warranty? What sort of price (order of magnitude is fine)?
The thing I am wondering is was there another way around this that I should have followed apart from not bothering
charltjr said:
Throw us a bone here, you want advice on how to avoid it happening again but won't tell us the details. You're not making the relationship between the sites and companies involved very clear, if it was eBay or Amazon why not just say?
It was Amazon.The problem with it all was not knowing who was who. It seems that to avoid court issues they just have to tell everyone to use their UK address then when the court papers arrive they say its the wrong address and the wrong country, then I had just wasted time and money due to them lying about it.
It just seems a bit unfair and an easy way out of court action and bypassing the distance selling regs.
Just wondering how I could have known it would have ended up like it did or if its just one of those things
akirk said:
Why did you go to court?
Amazon are usually very good if you chat to their customer support...
They understand the need to comply with retail legislation in the uk and will generally refund or sort it out...
To cut a long story short it went on for over 6 months of promises of a replacement via phone and email before going down the small claims route, which then took over a year. Amazon are usually very good if you chat to their customer support...
They understand the need to comply with retail legislation in the uk and will generally refund or sort it out...
I thought they were good too and that was the reason for not worrying about buying from them.
They dont follow all the rules and regs with regards to distance selling regs though!
BlueHave said:
Chargeback would have been the more sensible option.
It seems not. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jan/19/amazo...And Amazon's "A-Z" guarantee is only for 90 days, so they're likely to wash their hands of it. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display....
Andehh said:
What did amazon customer service the say? They are usually very very on the ball with helping out customers! Refund or replacement based on fairness and time you've had said product obviously.
Well why dont Amazon insist all 3rd aprty sellers just put their addresses on so people like the OP don't have the problem they had? As indicated by the OP, sellers are legally required to give their details so Amazon to facilitate it and ensure it happens.
BlueHave said:
Chargeback would have been the more sensible option.
If you submitted the vague evidence your giving out here as evidence to the small claims court then it's no wonder you lost the claim.
The credit card company said they couldn't do a charge back. If you submitted the vague evidence your giving out here as evidence to the small claims court then it's no wonder you lost the claim.
I am not submitting evidence here as it's a car website and there is no point. As I wrote in my previous posts just looking to see where it went wrong and to try to understand why. It may also assist someone else in a similar position.
Clearly suing the wrong business is the reason you lost in any case, but you may also have lost because you just didn't use the correct legal arguments. If you are claiming the item was mis-sold then that may have been your issue, IANAL but wouldn't your claim have been unfit for purpose?
Also doubt this is under the Distance Selling, but rather Consumer Goods Act or whatever it's called. Maybe small technical details, but if your legalese isn't correct and you claim under the wrong thing then that will affect you.
Just a thought.
Also doubt this is under the Distance Selling, but rather Consumer Goods Act or whatever it's called. Maybe small technical details, but if your legalese isn't correct and you claim under the wrong thing then that will affect you.
Just a thought.
Edited by Jefferson Steelflex on Sunday 12th June 07:34
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